edvard
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Post by edvard on Aug 9, 2015 23:56:45 GMT -5
Wow, it's been a year since I posted here? Dang...  Well, since I posted this: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7294/first-guitar-planning-seeking-adviceI haven't got much farther. In fact, I had to sell the Warmoth neck, though I did get a good price for it, I'd prefer to have something with the nut pre-installed anyway, and there are plenty of suitable inexpensive candidates on GuitarFetish.com, so on to the point... In that thread I promised to release the plans I was drawing up, and here it is... Ladies and Gents, I give you... The Loaf Champion. loaf_champion.zip (608.79 KB)  Inside are multi-layer DXF and DWG files, so should be viewable with any appropriate CAD program. I drew the whole thing with QCad on Linux, so I can recommend that as there are versions for Linux, Mac and Windows. Let me know if you have trouble with it or if anything needs improving, I'd be happy to oblige. |
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 14, 2015 12:35:39 GMT -5
Nice drawing. Interesting take on the original Breadwinner.
Two things struck me reading your most recent post.
1.) Even though the Warmouth neck is gone, swapping it out for a GuitarFetish neck is like trading your Mercedes in for a Trebant. The price may be right, but the differences in quality of wood and workmanship are glaringly distinct. Every aftermarket neck requires some rework and tweaking. You just have to ask yourself how much rework you want to do, or feel comfortable with. Going for a GuitarFetish neck just because it has the nut installed is like buying a car for the cup holder. I know I'm going to ruffle a few feathers on that one, but it is what it is...I'm old enough to be judgmental now...
2.) As I recall, the original Breadwinner had a full two octaves on the neck, with very easy access the the higher register. With the Strat neck you're losing the last three frets of the higher octave. Honestly, on my basses over the years I never had 24 frets, and never knew what I was missing...until I picked up a 6 string bass with a full two octaves. It's your call, but I'd give it a second look. Your Strat scale is 25.5" (647.7mm) versus the original Ovation scale of 24.75" (628.65). While this would require moving things around a tad, since your still in the design phase, this might be worth the time to investigate.
On the version with the 3 single coils typical of a Strat, is the bridge a hardtail or a Trem-Leo? Rotating the drawing gave nothing away on that.
What kind of wood were you planning on using? The original Ovations were mahogany, coated in Lyrachord, while the Strats of the time were typically ash with a Fullerplast coating, then lacquer.
Well, that's enough for me now...time for more coffee and another cigarette.
I'm looking forward to seeing how this guitar turns out.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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edvard
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Post by edvard on Aug 15, 2015 16:16:17 GMT -5
Glad you like the drawing, I spent quite a bit of time agonizing over details trying to get it "just right" and I'm still unconvinced that it's complete. Or it could be me... 1 - Yes, I'm well aware of the shortcomings I am just begging for, but to be honest, as long as the neck isn't warped and the truss rod does it's job, I'd be happy. I also have a file or two to tame any wily frets. I'm not rich, picky, nor young enough to care all that much any more. Case in point: My main axe at the moment is an Indonesia-made Squire Affinity Strat I got in pieces for $3.99, for which I hacked out a pickguard from sign-shop PVC so I could use the two pickups that came in the box as a humbucker. It stays in tune and plays well, so I can't complain, though I did spend a few bucks on better hardware. Now, if I was building this for someone else who paid me - no question; I would use the advance to get the best I could find, from neck to strings. Buying a car for the cupholder? Naw, Warmoth sells necks with nuts pre-installed these days. 2 - I suspect the short scale on the original design was how they could get away with having 24 frets; they didn't risk losing much strength in doing away with almost one entire side of the neck pocket to expose that final octave. In the process of re-designing it around a 25.5" scale to fit a Strat replacement neck , I found myself making more difficult choices and compromises about the design right around the neck pocket than just about anywhere else. The longer scale neck is going to need a strong spot to bolt to, so I wanted to minimize wood loss at that point and finally just patterned it more-or-less after a standard Strat pocket. In the 80's I cared about 24 frets. Now, not so much. As hard as I have tried over the years, I've finally figured out I'm just not a soloist. I'm much happier having fun with playing rhythms and trying chord inversions on frets 1-14 than I ever was trying to shred the last few inches in the pocket. I suppose if someone else wants those last few, they are welcome to alter the drawing to their preference. Maybe that'll be an option in the next version... The "Strat" version is designed for a hard-tail bridge. In the next version, I'll include a "Trem-Leo" routing option. Two-post or six-screw? Choices, choices... The two-humbucker version is designed with Allparts' #SB-5800-010 Danelectro bridge in mind, as it was most similar in shape to the original Breadwinner bridge, minus the nylon or brass saddles *shudder*. I think in the next version, I'll add a drill pattern for a Tune-o-matic as well. For wood, I've been considering all kinds of things... I can't afford a proper hardwood slab at this point, and I don't trust my woodworking skills with that much money anyhow. I thought I'd do a pine or plywood body just to get the "feel" of the thing, then move up from there. If I had my 'druthers (and the extra cash), I've had it in my head for years to do a hybrid; a 'sandwich' of mahogany or similar dark-colored wood, topped and bottomed with a light-colored maple or alder and clear-coated so you have the visual effect of a stripe running around the perimeter of the body. Well, looks like it's time to work up a new drawing, thank you for the suggestions, I'll get to actually mangling some wood as I get the time and materials. If anybody else gets around to building this before I do, I require a tax of build pictures...  |
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 18, 2015 23:57:56 GMT -5
One alternative I've flogged a few times around here is a used neck off of eBay. Sure, there may be some rework involved, but as long as the truss rod works and it doesn't look like it came straight from a riot, you have a stable piece of wood that isn't going anywhere on you. (as in, becoming a piece of corkscrew free art) I've done this more than a few time over the past 15+ years and only got burned once.
An easy build option to the typical Fender of Floyd Rose routing of the back is to find a Kahler trem. Just a small pocket on the top with no back routing. 4Real will probably back me up on this one.
Wood. The final frontier... Unless you have advanced woodworking skills, a $300.00 book matched AAA flamed maple top is certainly overkill. That said, I've made basses\guitars out of a lot of things over the past 35+ years. I've paid big money for wood on custom builds...and they honestly didn't sound any damn better than cheaper more common alternatives.
Answer this one: Do you really thing Leo Fender chose swamp ash as a body wood because it was tonally superior? OK, let me answer it...NO, he did it because it was cheap and readily available. In the mid 60's Fender started dipping guitar\bass bodies in a plasticizer called Fullerplast to act as a combination wood filler\stabilizer for a flat finish with nitrocellulose lacquer because ash has nasty grain to sand flat and fill. (nitrocellulose lacquer...another cheap alternative...don't get me started)
That said, depending on what part of the world you live in, there are any number of woods similar in Janka hardness and grain to mahogany. Just search Google for "Wood Janka Hardness" and you'll have enough reading to cure the most chronic insomniac.
Plywood at 1.75" (45mm) is going to be no bargain. The ends are always a pistol to smooth out and fill, plus you'll really need a wood hardener to keep them from crumbling over time. If you're going to paint the guitar you can take a lower grade of wood. If you sandwich it you can even try a semi-hollow body...if that's your thing.
Well, that's probably it for now. Feel free to ask for clarification on anything I said here.
Happy Trails -
Cynical One
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edvard
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Post by edvard on Aug 30, 2015 1:10:33 GMT -5
One alternative I've flogged a few times around here is a used neck off of eBay. Y'know, I'd never thought of that. Looking now, there are some Warmoth necks on there, but none that struck my fancy and they were all beyond my budget anyhow. Likewise with the 'genuine' Strat and similar necks, even used. I did find a few used Squier necks for very reasonable prices, even ones with the CBS-style headstock (love that shape!). I'll keep looking... Good advice that, but to be frank, I've never liked trem, er, vibrato "whammy bars". Too easy to throw out of tune, too easily abused at the hands of a soloist's ego, etc. (That could just be the '80s talking though...) Bottom line, I'll never put a vibrato bridge on any guitar that I personally will be playing. They have their place, and that is in the hands of someone who knows how to use one with grace, elan, and common sense. I have precious little of all three  I long ago lost most of my fascination for mojo whether it be guitar woods or speaker wire (snicker). That said (and I think I said it in the other thread too), 'dead' wood means dead tone in anybody's book. I have no idea what the fascination with Basswood is, but I've played guitars made of it, and I'm not impressed. Ill steer clear of that and opt for something a little harder and brighter (and likely cheaper). Thanks for the Janka Hardness tip... I've got a few ideas already. I've read many nightmares of the brave souls who've attempted guitar buildery with ply, so I'm quite aware of the caveats... and you are correct, there are many. So my plan had always been that if I were to go with plywood, I'd go with that marine or aircraft grade stuff that's got a price tag to match it's durability and better working properties. At that point, might as well go hardwood. I have known a few boatbuilders personally, and was always asking after scraps, but they were always too good at what they did and used every inch possible. So it goes... Anyways, I've got bills to pay and a possible leaky roof so purchasing materials for my dream guitar is going to be out of the question for at least the rest of the year. Until then, I'll dream and keep designing. |
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 30, 2015 11:00:04 GMT -5
One alternative I've flogged a few times around here is a used neck off of eBay. Y'know, I'd never thought of that. I've had good luck with old Fernandes, Yamaha and Peavey necks. Honestly, if it's made it 20 years and stayed playable, there are a lot of bargains out there if you've able and willing to put some time into tweaking it. Truth be told, all of my guitars at the moment have a Schaller roller bridge.  IMHO it's probably the best all around hard tail guitar\bass bridge out there and they show up on eBay all the time. Well, the whole granite thing never really caught on... It's cheap, readily available and easy on your CNC tooling. Personally, I always liked poplar for a bass, but what do I know... Good aged wood is all over the place. People just don't look for it. For example, take a look at the 50 year old middle shelf in this old maple bookcase:  A friend of mine pulled this out of a garage. This is the guitar he built out of it:  A sharp eye, patience and a bit of luck goes a long way. Happy Trails Cynical One |
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edvard
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Post by edvard on Aug 31, 2015 23:33:08 GMT -5
Truth be told, I've always had an eye for those Schaller bridges, maybe now's the time to snap one up... You mean the granite guitar submitted to Fender? Sustain for days, but weighed about 45 pounds? Yeah, LOL Or this guy: www.jemsite.com/forums/f20/insane-guitar-58720.htmlOK, I'll give it that, but according to the charts, common Pine is a harder wood than Basswood. Last time I played a guitar made of Basswood, it felt like I was strumming wet cotton yarn. Granted, it sounded OK (not great) when cranked through my friend's tube Carvin 1-12, but I could still feel the "shlumpiness". Bleah. I likes me some Poplar too. I'm not one for Tele bodies or bound edges, but oooooh that 'racing stripe' around the perimeter... *drool* Exactly the look I'm after. I suppose the lighter wood is the maple, what is the darker wood? Walnut? Mahogany? Inquiring minds want to know... |
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Post by cynical1 on Sept 1, 2015 10:02:17 GMT -5
You won't be disappointed with the Schaller roller bridge. They're a breeze to intonate and the level of adjustment on them is superb. You can spend more, but it's hard to get more for your money. I have them a two basses and they work like a charm there as well. They list through the roof new, but if you're a patient man you can score one for around $30.00-$35.00 on eBay. When the whole shredder guitar thing took off basswood came into its own. You're never going to get twang or screech out of them, but when the gain is set to 11 that's about the last thing you want anyway. On the Blue Murder guitar I built it started as a Floyd routed basswood shredder body. Having burned all my alder on hand, I used red and white oak to fill the FR cavities and mounted a gold Schaller roller bridge. It was never intended to be a bright guitar, but it turned out a lot more articulate than I expected with the oak fill pieces. And the middle of the "sandwich" was rosewood.  God only knows where Mike came up with that much rosewood...he had a stash of black walnut from a 100 year old used coffin, so it's anybody's guess. As I recall the story he told, the shelf was made from wood that came out a tree on his grandfather's farm the came down in a storm. His father took some of that wood and built that shelf in high school shop class. Move forward 50 years and he spots it in the back of the garage and grabs it after his grandfather passes away. He just ran it through a planer, used pieces of rosewood for chambering and added binding. It was built as a present for his father and the back has an inlaid coin from his father's birth year. My point in posting it was to remind people that some of the best old growth grained and stable wood is sitting collecting dust somewhere. Wood like that maple above should never be used to hold rusty paint cans... Before some moron uses it for firewood you might want to grab it for a guitar. Happy Trails Cynical One |
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edvard
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Post by edvard on Sept 2, 2015 2:41:04 GMT -5
OK, now I have absolutely no excuse at all... This guy has built 14 guitars out of scrap wood, epoxy, and nails for frets (NAILS!), no power tools or clamps: www.instructables.com/id/diy-cheap-bass-or-electric-guitar/I cringe when I see the guitar body constructed like a losing game of Tetris, but in the end he has a guitar that works, and I am left speechless. Where there's a will, there's a way... |
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Post by cynical1 on Sept 2, 2015 11:52:09 GMT -5
At the beginning of the last century, Jack Hall was a seaman who built guitars out of matchsticks while at sea.  The BBC still has the story on their site: Matchstick instruments on display in BrightonNow we've dispensed with the "Guitars from found items" segment of the thread... HTC1 |
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majorwoody
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Post by majorwoody on Mar 14, 2016 17:37:31 GMT -5
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 15, 2016 2:02:26 GMT -5
Man, that was a kick in the gut. Even though he hasn't been by that much recently, his contribution here over the years was extensive and exhaustive. We don't get many like him.
A few years ago, Pete and I corresponded quite a bit through e-mails. Commiserated about life and talked about music. He taught me quite a bit about playing...more than I understood... Life happens and we lost touch for a while. You figure you always have enough time to start the conversation again.
This made me think about the last member we lost here just over 6 years ago. I remembered a series of IMs I sent trying to talk ChrisK into joining the only Jam we've ever pried out of this place. I mentioned all the different guitars he'd built, along with all the thought he'd put into the design...and hey, don't you want to actually play one of these master pieces? His reply was, as always, succinct. "No." I'm guessing Pete and Chris have already had that conversation, too.
Vaya con dios, mate.
C1
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2016 3:03:02 GMT -5
Majorwoody how did you know 4real's real personal details? I had ugly moments with him as well (same thing like you) but we didn't get that far as exchanging "info" on a personal level. So you come again from 6 years back (and while still having 10 posts in total) just to inform of 4real's death? The dates that he last posted here and the supposed date of death kind of make sense, but still there are some things to explain here. Like why were you so interested in/obsessed with his death? Why have you been following traces of his life? Why did you come here to post this 2 years after the supposed death?
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Post by JohnH on Mar 15, 2016 14:43:30 GMT -5
Well I miss Pete. I had wondered what had happened to him. I am sad, but grateful to be told the news (even though it happened a while back).
Pete and I had some enjoyable and fruitful exchanges on matters of design, and on life. He was thoughtful, creative and inventive as well as being a good guitarist. The last I heard, he doing doing fine and had some new directions in his life. Very sad, RIP.
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Post by newey on Mar 15, 2016 16:00:56 GMT -5
Pete and I also exchanged some PMs on life in general, and on the doings on Philips Island. Sorry to hear the sad news.
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col
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Post by col on Mar 16, 2016 1:47:44 GMT -5
I am sorry to hear about Pete. I didn't know him for long, but he provided me with some very useful feedback to an 'everything' design I was working on a few years ago. My sincerest condolences to all his friends here at Gnuts.
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Post by sumgai on Mar 16, 2016 2:28:20 GMT -5
greekdude, Majorwoody how did you know 4real's real personal details?
4real was not afraid to communicate his real name to others. I think he actually signed some of his messages here with his name, not just his moniker. And it's common knowledge that he had revealed his name to others around the 'net, until he started getting harassed by one certain individual, about sustainers and how his particular build didn't work as expected, and why didn't Peter/4real fix it for him, yada yada, so on and so forth. And many of us knew he was in South Australia, most recently that we knew of for sure was Philips Island, from where he posted many a fine picture of the seashore and its inhabitants.
Now, all that said, the real point of your question is, why would someone happen to know about the death of another man, clear around the other side of the planet? Well, by way of example, none of us would've learned of ChrisK's death if it hadn't been for D2o. IIRC, Chris lived in Pennsylvania, and D2o lived in Toronto. The point is, D2o knew that Chris was terminally ill, so he made it a point to read the obituary in the Chris's local newspaper, every day. That's why we all knew the sad news in about 12 hours after the man's passing. I can see where this scenario might've been repeated, vis-a-vis 'woody and 4real. Friendly or otherwise, I'm happy to know that someone followed Peter closely enough to give the rest of the forum's members closure, even if it is a bit late.
Not to be maudlin about it, but I'm fairly certain that more than one person here in The NutzHouse is tracking me. It's no secret that I'm nigh on to 70 years old, nor that I have a fairly severe heart condition. Finding out the reason someone has "left the building" is a relief to most folks. Many of us here are still wondering whatever became of Unklmickey. Or mini-strat-maine. Or bam. I could go on, but you get the point, I'm sure.
And about that time lapse.... our own founding member, RandomHero, has checked in here about every 4 years or so, since he turned it over to me. (9 years ago!) Know what he said, the last time he peeked in? "Hey, I just remembered this place - I'd forgotten all about it!!" As much as I'd like to believe that this Forum is a cornerstone to keeping the whole Internet running, I do realize that not everyone (in fact, no one) has a perfect memory.... Bill Gates notwithstanding. 'woody's lapse is understandable, and as we like to say, "better late than never".
HTH
sumgai
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majorwoody
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Post by majorwoody on Mar 16, 2016 5:05:23 GMT -5
Majorwoody how did you know 4real's real personal details? I had ugly moments with him as well (same thing like you) but we didn't get that far as exchanging "info" on a personal level. So you come again from 6 years back (and while still having 10 posts in total) just to inform of 4real's death? The dates that he last posted here and the supposed date of death kind of make sense, but still there are some things to explain here. Like why were you so interested in/obsessed with his death? Why have you been following traces of his life? Why did you come here to post this 2 years after the supposed death? I wasn't following him that closely (else I would have known about the news I posted much sooner) as I barely do much with guitar/tech nowadays, but I - like many - actually enjoyed his posts/photographs ....& knowing his prolific posting style, I found it odd that he'd made no contributions for 18 months on here & suspected something must be amiss. As others have said, he was no stranger to giving his personal details out on the internet & in the light of his radio silence for an uncharacteristic length of time, it took all of two minutes to locate that link (if he'd been called Brown, Smith or Jones it wouldn't have been so easy). Why did you come here to post this 2 years after the supposed death? Erhm, because I've only just found out myself! (I can't post news before I know about it). Since 4real he was an active contributor here, I thought there'd be those who would want to know of such news ....don't try to make more of it. |
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edvard
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Post by edvard on Jul 3, 2016 17:39:05 GMT -5
I have had the chance to curate a few obituaries at other sites I frequent, the only trigger being a prolific poster suddenly going silent. I've had to exercise my interweb-fu to track them down, and it's always a nice thing to find someone still alive and kicking, but good to close the chapter on someone who has passed. I came too late to know 4Real, but I have read some of his posts here and am sure his knowledge and personality will be missed. That said, as much as I hate to interrupt the stream of heartfelt goodbyes, I must say I replied in this thread to announce the next version of my guitar design. Hope you like it:  loaf_champion_3.6.zip (383.58 KB) |
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