I need help with HSH super switch wiring

[josip]

Hi all,

I have an old '94 Ibanez RX which I upgraded with used DiMarzio/IBZ HSH set and I would like to add some more pickup combinations by adding a super switch (DiMarzio multipole 5-way EP 1112) and a push-pul tone pot. So, this what I would like to get:



I tried figuring out the wiring myself using wiring diagram from DiMarzio website for Ibanez EGEN as a starting point but I just seem not to have enough poles for 2 full humbuckers in the middle position with tone pulled up. Somebody with more experience with this might figure this one out. Thanks a lot!

[newey]

Josip:

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

I haven't tried to put pen to paper on this, but off the top of my head, you may be right, too few poles. I don't see the 2 HBs in the 3rd position as the issue, it's the neck HB in parallel at position 2 that gives me pause with your scheme- but I guess it depends on what you try to wire first with the extra poles, position 2 or position 3.

Someone else may have a better answer for you. We have many here more clever than I am.

[Deleted]

ill have a look at it, but that might scare others off from trying .. HOPE not as you get better design others doing it as well if possible

2P2T Push Pull Switch
4P5T DiMarzio multipole 5-way EP 1112

hard point is the MIDDLE as it goes from just the Middle Pick to Two Full on Humbuckers 

[Deleted]

Feb 13, 2020 6:27:54 GMT -5 newey said:

Josip:

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

I haven't tried to put pen to paper on this, but off the top of my head, you may be right, too few poles. I don't see the 2 HBs in the 3rd position as the issue, it's the neck HB in parallel at position 2 that gives me pause with your scheme- but I guess it depends on what you try to wire first with the extra poles, position 2 or position 3.

Someone else may have a better answer for you. We have many here more clever than I am.

i was thinking of using one of the 2P2T Poles to Flip the Middle Pickup for the Neck, so Neck comes in to play in 2,3 and 4 position 
the problem im having is moving around for the GROUND for Humbucker to Single on Bridge/Neck



-----
At the moment (just off to work) i got it all apart form the Bridge to Output 
used both POLES of the 2P2T and used all 4P5T poles
i have a feeling it lies with the bridge some how
NS..NN..MS..BN..BS by the drawing terms

[josip]

Is there a 3p2t pot as that would solve this? One pole for switching middle single to a humbucker, one pole for switching output, and one for splits/grounds... Anybody tried making a 3p2t with a 2p2t pot and additional internal 2p2t switched by one pole of dpdt pot?

Edit: Just realized that this is all passive, ignore my stupid 2p2t relay idea  . But 3pdt pot would really be a savior here

[reTrEaD]

Feb 13, 2020 6:27:54 GMT -5 newey said:

you may be right, too few poles. I don't see the 2 HBs in the 3rd position as the issue, it's the neck HB in parallel at position 2 that gives me pause with your scheme

I concur. There are too many moves needed to go from Neck with coils in parallel to Both HBs in parallel with their coils in local series.

However, if moving the Neck with coils in parallel to the upper set of choices is acceptable, I believe it's possible. I reckon there will be a hanging from hot and/or unused coils being shunted issue in a position or two. But that's never been a deal-breaker.

Swapping the first selection in the top set and the second position in the bottom set, we get:




josip , would such a change be acceptable?

[josip]

My idea was to go from standard Ibanez hsh configuration into missing combinations of HH and humbucker splits. Other option would be to go from standard Ibanez 5-way hh configuration into strat mode like this:



This actually makes more sense as each mode is logical on its own and I prefer outer neck split with middle anyway 
Can we try this one?

[reTrEaD]

Feb 13, 2020 12:33:13 GMT -5 josip said:

Can we try this one?

You can try, but I have serious doubts it will bear any fruit.

You mentioned wanting a 3PDT push-pull. Well, the Fender S1 is a pot with a 4PDT push-push switch. So more than you asked for. But I don't think it will solve the inherent problem.

The disparity between the selection in the Center position of the selector demands that you use 3 poles of the selector. 1 pole is connected to the output to accommodate the connection of the Middle pickup when the tone knob is down. 2 poles to accommodate the connection of the two HBs when the tone knob is up. Those two poles of the selector can be tied together. But you can't connect both HBs to any one throw of the selector. The choice of modes will be accomplished by one pole of the switch on the tone pot.

There are some positions of the selector (when the tone knob is down) which require two connections to hot. This will demand yet another pole of the selector. Now all four poles are spoken for. You have none in reserve for managing the series or parallel connection of the Neck pickup. That must be accomplished by a pole of the switch (either DPDT or 4PDT) on the tone pot.

Having the Neck PARALLEL selection in the same group which has both (local series connected) HBs being selected in the center position makes this impossible. At least that's the way I see it.

[Deleted]

I think I can do it with 2P2T but .
Always butts

You will have a hanging bridge in position 3 , shouldn't effect it in my books as both ends need to be connected to make a circuit

But can for sure do it with a S1 (4P2T)

[josip]

I think I solved the original idea with 3 poles on a switch. Sorry for drawing this up in paint this way. I used DiMarzio colors for reference, neck&bridge black and white from teh single go to ground.



Can someone check this, please? Also, if anyone could make an usable diagram out of this with S1 on volume pot it would be great

---

The schematic is for this pickup combination. Bridge green/red pair is connected to lug 4 on Pole 2 and neck red is connect to lug 2 on pole 2, sorry for confusion. So, if it goes over a lug it is connected to the lug
Thanks!



I am new on the forum so this is probably written somewhere but what tool are you using to draw wiring diagrams? Thanks!

[Deleted]

I am going SNOW BLIND here.. look at the weekend again 

4P2T switch .. if they company can do with 2P2T i'll keep looking to see if can do i

[reTrEaD]

Feb 13, 2020 19:09:11 GMT -5 josip said:

I think I solved the original idea with 3 poles on a switch. Sorry for drawing this up in paint this way. I used DiMarzio colors for reference, neck&bridge black and white from teh single go to ground.



upload pic

Can someone check this, please? Also, if anyone could make an usable diagram out of this with S1 on volume pot it would be great

I am new on the forum so this is probably written somewhere but what tool are you using to draw wiring diagrams? Thanks!

Hey josip , I might have time over the weekend to look closely at your diagram but it does look somewhat promising. I was very wrong about how many poles were needed to manage the connections to the hot output.

You're using pole #1 only when the 'mode select switch' is up, #4 only when the 'mode select switch' is down, and #2 always. You're sending the White of the Bridge pickup to one pole of the 'mode select switch' so you can disconnect it from throw #3 of the 'always' section of the pickup selector when the mode switch is down. So that part covers an issue that I thought would require another pole of the pickup selector. Nicely done.

---

Regarding the S1, this image should provide the necessary information to understand how to connect the 12 terminals of the switch.

[newey]

Looking at your schematic, josip, and I'm not clear on the connections to Pole#2. Does the bridge green/red pair connect to lug 4 on Pole 2, or just cross over that lug to Pole #1? Likewise, does the neck red connect to lug 2 on pole 2, or just cross over to pole #3?

I haven't gone through the whole thing yet, but I see at least one problem with position 5 when in the "Strat mode". In this mode, Pole 4 is connected to output, giving you the middle pickup, as desired, in positions 2,3 and 4. Pole 2 is always connected to output. At position 5, on pole 2, the bridge white is connected to output, while the bridge black is not shown, and is(presumably) permanently grounded.

In Strat mode, you want only the bridge N coil (red/black wires on a DM pickup)at positions 4 and 5, but at position 5, you have the red/green connected together, white to output, black grounded. This gives you the full series HB at position 5, not just the N coil (since the red/green pair isn't connected to anything at position 5, just connected together).

At position 4, the red wire connects to output and the black is grounded so that position does give you the M + Br N coil, as desired.

EDIT: I see a similar issue with the neck at position 1 when in "Strat mode" (i.e., with Pole 4 connected to output). Neck black is grounded by Pole 3 in position 1, neck white connects to output via pole 2, green/red pair are connected together but not connected anywhere else. This then gives you the full series HB at position 1, not the neck N coil only.

[josip]

Feb 13, 2020 5:10:24 GMT -5 josip said:

The schematic is for this pickup combination. Bridge green/red pair is connected to lug 4 on Pole 2 and neck red is connect to lug 2 on pole 2, sorry for confusion. So, if it goes over a lug it is connected to the lug
Thanks!

[reTrEaD]

Hey josip, I took the liberty of adding the switching map and your recent description to the previous posting of the wiring diagram. I hope that's okay with you.

Feb 13, 2020 19:09:11 GMT -5 josip said:

I am new on the forum so this is probably written somewhere but what tool are you using to draw wiring diagrams? Thanks!

There is no one tool we all use. Some use TinyCad, others use paint, I think JohnH has made several wiring diagrams using MS Word, and I'm not sure if Yogi B is using Visio or MyDraw.

[Deleted]

Ibanez tend to use their own Switch system

as for Ibanez Egen 


I think in THEORY i could make a 5 way switch that does what you asked for .....
a bit different. So YOU NEED 4P2T switch really to do what you want 

[newey]

The schematic is for this pickup combination. Bridge green/red pair is connected to lug 4 on Pole 2 and neck red is connect to lug 2 on pole 2, sorry for confusion. So, if it goes over a lug it is connected to the lug
Thanks

Ahh, I was looking at the wrong diagram- thought you were going for the "strat mode" version.

Now that you have clarified, your diagram looks OK to me. With RT's explication of the S-1 switch, you can figure that part out fairly easily. I am unaware of any 3P2T switches, so you're either looking at the S-1 or a 4P2T toggle.

[reTrEaD]

Feb 13, 2020 12:33:13 GMT -5 josip said:

Can we try this one?

I spent a little time with this idea and I believe I have it sussed with just a DPDT push-pull. The key is to be careful about using the 'always' section of the SuperSwitch for only those selections that are common to both. This means expanding the use of the HH and SSS sections to more positions.

I think your original map can be accomplished with just a DPDT, if you use the same sort of mindset.

Here's the new map and wiring diagram:




Notes

SuperSwitch Poles:

• Always
• HH mode
• Tail of Neck South coil
• SSS mode

[/ol]
[/ul]Superswitch Throws:
Bridge ← 5 4 3 2 1 → Neck

South coil will hang from hot when a North coil is selected in SSS mode.
If a 4PDT is used rather than a DPDT, this can be eliminated.[/blockquote]

This circuit has not yet been vetted (proofread).

[newey]

RT-

That is brilliant, I didn't think it could be done with just 2 poles. The diagram checks out by me.

[reTrEaD]

Feb 16, 2020 9:00:23 GMT -5 newey said:

The diagram checks out by me.

Thank you, newey. I appreciate you taking the time to check it. After I get one more set of eyes on it, I think I might post it to the schematics sub-board.

[sumgai]

Sorry, reTrEaD , but I'm in the middle of a high-pressure quilting season. I only check in to make sure that no one has stolen the 'House overnight. But at first glance it looks OK, although that's only a gut feeling, not a detailed analysis.

Again, apologies for not being able to spend more time on this... or in The NutzHouse in general.




sumgai

[JohnH]

Hi reTrEaD

Great scheme! I'll offer to check it if you offer to check my one on page 2 of this thread (Studiostrivers)

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8509/help-custom-wiring-scheme-again?page=2

(I think there are currently two mistakes on mine as posted there, you can be nominated for President if you can find 3 or more!)

[reTrEaD]

Feb 18, 2020 15:59:13 GMT -5 JohnH said:

Hi reTrEaD

Great scheme! I'll offer to check it if you offer to check my one on page 2 of this thread (Studiostrivers)

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8509/help-custom-wiring-scheme-again?page=2

(I think there are currently two mistakes on mine as posted there, you can be nominated for President if you can find 3 or more!)

I'd be happy to vet any of your work. I should have a decent block of time available tomorrow.

To be sure we're talking about the same thing, you mean the one in this post?

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/post/90559

[JohnH]

That's the one, but scroll down and there is the same schematic with a wiring diagram too. Could wait until I've fixed the two things I saw. I'll repost and let you know.
cheers and thanks
J

[JohnH]

I traced yours through each setting - looks like its all good to me!

[Deleted]

Is there no software for Electronics where you can Click on a SWITCH location and it High Lights the Route
that way you can click each state and see what comes active

[Deleted]

Hi,

I'm wiring my RG570 with this scheme, could you confirm it is working?

I know how to follow a scheme and can troubleshoot, but I'm new to this superswith.
I bought the Oaks version.
Also I want to add a treble pass to volume. 
What tone cap do you recommend for this?

If you could provide the full scheme I'll appreciate and test it this weekend.

[Deleted]

I mean this version, I think it has the most usefull tones for stock ibanez V7/s1/V8 pickups.
The S1 is really low and I don't use currently

Feb 15, 2020 15:51:32 GMT -5 reTrEaD said:

Feb 13, 2020 12:33:13 GMT -5 josip said:

Can we try this one?

I spent a little time with this idea and I believe I have it sussed with just a DPDT push-pull. The key is to be careful about using the 'always' section of the SuperSwitch for only those selections that are common to both. This means expanding the use of the HH and SSS sections to more positions.

I think your original map can be accomplished with just a DPDT, if you use the same sort of mindset.

Here's the new map and wiring diagram:




Notes

SuperSwitch Poles:

• Always
• HH mode
• Tail of Neck South coil
• SSS mode

[/ol]
[/ul]Superswitch Throws:
Bridge ← 5 4 3 2 1 → Neck

South coil will hang from hot when a North coil is selected in SSS mode.
If a 4PDT is used rather than a DPDT, this can be eliminated.[/blockquote]

This circuit has not yet been vetted (proofread).

I mean this version [/quote]

[newey]

leondantas-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

reTrEaD's diagram has been vetted and checks out OK. However, we never heard back from josip, so we don't know if it has been actually built yet or not.

So, you may be the guinea pig on this one.

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2020 4:55:23 GMT -5 newey said:

leondantas-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

reTrEaD 's diagram has been vetted and checks out OK. However, we never heard back from josip , so we don't know if it has been actually built yet or not.

So, you may be the guinea pig on this one.

I'm willing to do it, but I have these questions about the tone wiring and treble bleed for the volume.
I'll do this wiring this week and will report the results.