Easy Jimmy Page Wiring

[JohnH]

Hi frets, I think you're posting mainly for tragichero, but can we join in?

I quite like the diagram style, big and clear. By putting pictures of the controls around the pickups, wire runs get teased apart so they can be seen and followed easily in a complex wiring. Obviously it looks not much like an LP control cavity. How would you find working off this for a build? I reckon I'd do it, better than just an electronic schematic if I didn't have a wiring diagram. I think a beginner might struggle but then they probably shouldn't be doing JP wirings anyway.

The circuit itself works out to be mostly what the original versions of this scheme were from Gibson, and which we generally find upon the 'net. Do you build these for clients? and if so how do you/they like them?

A few of us got way deep into the building of better JP mousetraps (or rats nests) 10 to 15 years ago, to try to take out the 'hairs' that this type of wiring has. Here are the things we thought needed dealing with:

This design shows 'independent' wiring, with output from outer volume lugs. It doesn't work consistently and tends to dull the tones a lot. Its intended to help with mixing pickups, and avoids turning the whole guitar off if one knob is at zero, but its not good at mixing. Normal pot wiring is preferred by most of us

Going to series mode, only one volume knob works, and there is no mixing. It is possible to keep the volumes independent, so that in series mode, you can have full of one and a little of the other, and this does work well. This also takes load off giving clearer tone and at the same time, tones pots become properly independent

Also on series mode, you have to put the toggle to select the neck as well as pull the pot. It is possible to have it so that the pulling of the knob forces series mode to work independent of where the toggle is

When you coil cut both, the diagram cuts to different coils on each, all good for humcancelling (should identify that Seymour Duncan coils have been drawn). But if you also pull phase, it will hum. It doesnt need to, we can make that mode non-humming too.

Coil cutting by shunting to ground like this has obviously been done a zillion times and it works, but it saps a little energy and slightly dulls the tone of the remaining coil, which is still magnetically coupled to it. We suspected this then and many years later Antigua proved it in pickup tests. The JP wiring can be arranged to avoid this.

If you build these for clients, and would like these issues addressed, we have schemes.

[frets]

John, I’ve used this diagram two times with no complaints and thought it would be an easy and quick build for Trag to flip that guitar.

That said, I have migrated over to using Face boards for Jimmy Page setups that I developed that eliminate the dead zone.

Here is an example using my face boards.




I’ll take down the the diagram I posted so as not to cause any distress by someone who may build it given this subject has already been vetted by the group.

Sorry Guys 

The Jimmy Page Wiring is a mod that dominates my work with Les Paul’s and Paul clones. That’s why I did the boards. It’s Jimmy Page for the young guys and ‘50’s Wiring for the more mature guys. A mod that is starting to gain traction is the PTB for four control guitars.

[JohnH]

No problem, and if the clients are happy its all good. Your builds are very skillfully done which ever way you do them. Just wanted to point those things out in case you might ever want to consider them further.

[newey]

frets:

Please do not (permanently) remove your diagram. Around here, we don't delete things (excepting obvious spam), we edit them if necessary (and your diagram was good, so no need even to edit).

As it stands now, we have a thread with a reply by JohnH, responding to (apparently) . . . .nothing. John's reply was simply commentary, not criticism of your diagram, which is (err. . . was) a good representation of the std JP LP wiring. The thread is now likely to confuse someone who comes along looking for the basic Page wiring.

[frets]

Okay

[sumgai]

frets,


This reply is intended to cover both the above diagram, and a question that arose over in Translation Troubles..... Here we go:

Essentially, this diagram falls short in that when Series is chosen, there will be a dead spot when Neck is selected - the Series combo will be available only when Bridge or Both are selected, as the output of the pair is routed through the Bridge Volume pot, and thence on to the selector switch. The easy way to solve this is to implement "series override", where the pairing shows up on all three selector positions. Take a look at what JohnH did in this diagram: (Sorry John, but I felt like purloining your entire diagram was better than sending readers off to Wonderland, from whence they'd never return! )


The key piece of evidence here is that John did not use both poles of the S/P to route each pickups' respective leads, he cleverly needed only one pole of the DPDT to do that job.  The other pole was used to "short" the selector switch, thus reducing the dead spot to nothing more than a bad memory.

The other problem I noted is that when in series mode, the Neck's tone control is still connected directly to ground, and the Neck's Volume pot will control just how much effect the Tone control will exert on the overall tone.  And need I add that in series mode, this additional effect occurs only when the selector is in the Both position.  Between the extra loading of the pots in Both, compared to just the Bridge alone, and the positions of the two Neck controls, the tonal differences might be either jarring or inaudible, depending.

John solves this dilemma by purposefully keeping the controls in the circuit at all times.  Moreover, the two Volume controls continue to allow an infinite blend between the two pups, as they do in parallel.  That's gotta be a winner right there.

I'm not saying your mod is lacking, because it is easy, and most modders who know which end of a soldering iron goes in the hand will be able to handle your diagram.  What I am saying is that it does have shortcomings, and labeling it with such would tend to make modders less "upset" when they realize that something isn't quite right with their finished product.  And that's all because you didn't make up/incorporate a Truth Table.  Had you done so first, you'd've immediately seen what I saw, at least insofar as the S/P problem goes. 

Oh, and what I said in the other thread about translating a Gibson-type toggle to a Fender-type blade, that still applies to John's diagram.  If the user wants a blade, simply hook it up like I said over there, and drop it in as a direct substitute for the toggle shown by John.  Then let 'er rip!

HTH



sumgai

[frets]

Thank you Sumgai,
I was unaware that John’s diagram existed. You’re right, the Neck does cut out in the diagram I posted — 🤗