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Post by Gregory Wolfgang Spack on Jul 5, 2021 20:32:35 GMT -5
Hello forum, I have a HB BM-75 Brian May tribute model. This guitar has 3 singles, master volume and master tone, a 5 way pickup selector switch, and a phase slide switch for each pickup. I would like to mod this to have series/parallel switching. In my opinion the middle pickup phase switch is redundant and unnecessary. I would like to have the series parallel switching in its place. Does anybody have a diagram or explanation on how to accomplish that?
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Post by Gregory Wolfgang Spack on Jul 5, 2021 22:55:36 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2021 1:47:30 GMT -5
from my Blury eyes looks like you have done it..
Taking the middle phase out and moved the series/par to the location of the middle phase
Moved the Volume and Tone over from the RelicGuitars version
and the Tone was 250K with 47nF and up in to a 500K with 47nF
Lost what "CockedWah" is.. Middle with a 2n2F (M + 2n2F )
1) N 2) N+M 3) M 4) M+B 5) B
1) NxM 2) M+2n2F 3) M+2n2F 4) M+2n2F 5) BxM
i could be reading this wrong
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Post by newey on Jul 6, 2021 4:35:35 GMT -5
GWS- Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!We have had extensive discussions (and working diagrams) for adding parallel combos to the Brian May-style guitars. My take on this was similar to your idea, repurposing the middle phase switch: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/4650JohnH delivered the definitive version, adding all the parallel tones with a 4-pole switch: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/4855/brian-series-parallel-switching-sss?page=1However, all of the above designs start from the regular BM switching, using slide switches to control the pickups. Your 5-way switch adds a wrinkle, and your guitar is set up to have primarily parallel switching, with a couple of added series selections, rather than the BM series wiring. My blurry eyes disagree, and I'm not understanding the Relic Guitar diagram you are working from either. Unlike the standard BM guitar, yours is primarily parallel, and you are wanting to add series settings at positions 1 and 5 of the 5-way (with a "cocked wah" sound at 2,3 and 4- that part looks OK). In order to make a series connection at either position 1 or 5, we have to break the parallel connections at those switch positions. Your diagram doesn't do that. The pickups are still connected, in parallel, at those positions. This is also true on the Relic Guitar diagram, so I'm not sure where that diagram comes from, but it doesn't look right to my eyes. Also, the series/parallel switch, on the left-hand side, connects to ground in one position (good, for the paralle settings) but when "down", it connect to lug 3 of the 5-way switch, which in turn connects to the middle pickup "hot" wire. Since lug 3 is only connected in positions 2, 3 and 4, the switch isn't doing anything at positions 1 and 5, contrary to your table of switch positions. Let's get a second (errr, third) opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2021 8:44:23 GMT -5
hmm What type of 5Way switch is this.. shouldnt make any difference tho.. i cant see a difference in the two apart from the Middle Phase switching   Position 1 & 5 Black side after the Phase goes on to the Switch that Down is GROUND and Up hooks to the Middle pickup that has its own Ground. Im not going to google CockedWah at work im scared what i might get. |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jul 6, 2021 10:16:43 GMT -5
Im not going to google CockedWah at work im scared what i might get. Good plan. 'Cocked Wah' suggests the tone you would get when playing through a wah pedal and the pedal is in the 'toe-up' position. But Google results might be NSFW. lol |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jul 6, 2021 10:17:07 GMT -5
In order to make a series connection at either position 1 or 5, we have to break the parallel connections at those switch positions. Your diagram doesn't do that. The pickups are still connected, in parallel, at those positions. Look again, newey . The circuit achieves the advertised combinations in the series mode. ONLY the Neck (+) is connected to hot through the 5-way, in what they refer to as the #1 position. ONLY the Bridge (+) is connected to hot through the 5-way, in what they refer to as the #5 position. The Neck (-) and Bridge (-) are tied together. They're connected to ground in the parallel mode. They're connected to the Middle (+) in the series mode. This means the Neck and Bridge pickups will both be hanging from hot in the 2, 3, and 4 positions in series mode. The Neck pickup will be shunted in the #2 position. The Bridge pickup will be shunted in the #4 position. |
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Post by newey on Jul 6, 2021 11:37:27 GMT -5
Look again, newey . The circuit achieves the advertised combinations in the series mode. ONLY the Neck (+) is connected to hot through the 5-way, in what they refer to as the #1 position. ONLY the Bridge (+) is connected to hot through the 5-way, in what they refer to as the #5 position. Yeah, OK, I see it now, my mistake. |
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Post by Yogi B on Jul 6, 2021 20:57:00 GMT -5
Im not going to google CockedWah at work im scared what i might get. Good plan. 'Cocked Wah' suggests the tone you would get when playing through a wah pedal and the pedal is in the 'toe-up' position. But Google results might be NSFW. lol I'd not previously thought about the extra specificity that cocked implied (in that it means fully back/toe-up), and generally equated it with the safer for work term: "parked wah".
I've never really understood what HB were thinking with the wiring of the BM-75, though it could've been something they were forced into via threat from BrianMayGuitars. If I'm remembering correctly the original BM- 70 disappeared from sale fairly abruptly, that version had the usual (for the Red Special, at least) 6 slide switches — and there was a not insignificant gap before the reworked BM-75 was available. To be honest, I personally wouldn't mind the change: as noted one of the phase switches is redundant, and with the new version you could use a super-switch or megaswitch for the 5-way and move the phase switching to that (which I would actually prefer), leaving the three DPDT slide switches open for use as the pickup on/off switches in series wiring. I think the thing that bugs me is that even with a standard Strat switch or 8-terminal import switch, it's still possible to have a wiring scheme that's substantially more May-esque. For example a possible wiring could achieve: - B × M
- B
- B × N
- N
- N × M
Which when combined with the phase switches gives a total of 8 tones, all of which are available with the actual RS. Whereas HB's wiring only gives a total of 7 tones, where only the three individual pickup selections can be found on the RS.
Anyway, back to the issue at hand... As other's have said the Relic Custom Shop diagram and your adaptation of it both seem to be fine. However I will note one oddity in that the tone control is wired '50s style, whereby it's connected to the 'output' of the volume control rather than to the 'input' as with modern wiring. Though this is some people's preference, it is an acquired taste — and to my knowledge is not present in the stock wiring of a BM-75 or on the actual Red Special. |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jul 6, 2021 23:01:41 GMT -5
I'd not previously thought about the extra specificity that cocked implied (in that it means fully back/toe-up), and generally equated it with the safer for work term: "parked wah". You're absolutely right in the more general use of the term. A wah is a narrow bandpass filter and the position of the pedal changes the center frequency. You would park the pedal at whatever position you find interesting. In this particular case, where it's approximated by simply slapping a cap in parallel with the pickup, it tends to be more like toe-up. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2021 6:06:51 GMT -5
So many things you can do
Double Stacking the Pots so a Free Hole
At current the Neck/Bridge never together so you can have a 4P2T Slide Switch does the Phase of Both Neck/Bridge
Lever switch you can make in to a 6 or 7 way
Keep it Blond Keep it Simple
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Post by Yogi B on Jul 7, 2021 23:15:00 GMT -5
In this particular case, where it's approximated by simply slapping a cap in parallel with the pickup, it tends to be more like toe-up. I agree, but 2.2nF is probably a little on the low side for toe-up. Also I thought I saw a way to add a series capacitor too, making it an actual bandpass, but I think it was just a mirage. At current the Neck/Bridge never together... Actually that's a good point, neither the stock wiring nor the modded wiring really benefit from even two phase switches, in terms of the selections available, just the possibly utility of pre-setting the B & M combo's to be in phase and M & N to be out of phase (or vice versa.)Or just a DPDT for middle pickup phase  . I think the thing that bugs me is that even with a standard Strat switch or 8-terminal import switch, it's still possible to have a wiring scheme that's substantially more May-esque... Scratch that, we can do better. With a standard Strat switch, two phase switches, and a DPDT otherwise going spare, it's possible to get ALL the selections that are available on the RS. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2021 0:45:56 GMT -5
I think the thing that bugs me is that even with a standard Strat switch or 8-terminal import switch, it's still possible to have a wiring scheme that's substantially more May-esque... Scratch that, we can do better. With a standard Strat switch, two phase switches, and a DPDT otherwise going spare, it's possible to get ALL the selections that are available on the RS. WoW I work with these switches a lot and never managed to get much in the middle position. Managed to do things by ripping the board off and cutting some tracks. |
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Post by newey on Jul 8, 2021 4:47:01 GMT -5
Yogi B- A tour de force! The schematic checks out by me. I kept looking at that unused lug on the DPDT, wondering if there was a way to add a cap there to get the "cocked wah" sound and avoid some of the redundancy in combos with the DPDT "down". But I couldn't get it to work out. But, then again, I would have never been able to come up with this in the first place.
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Post by Gregory Wolfgang Spack on Jul 9, 2021 4:25:20 GMT -5
Well I just got the guitar today and tried my idea..... FAIL!!
I couldn't find a way to do what I was looking for. I put it back to the original stock wiring.
Im stumped...
All I am trying to achieve is being able to switch between series and parallel at positions 2 and 4.
Another cool idea would be to have that option for neck and bridge pickups
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2021 4:38:33 GMT -5
Dont see why it would fail .. i know myself its hard to follow a drawing Fully
its to do things in stages (and i dont listen to my own voice while im saying thing!!!!)
So do the Switching stage .. TEST
then Ground the the Switching stage, make sure they are all on Ground. one prob on the Pickup one on ground
making sure near zero ohms, if there is HIGH then mean you maybe on the wrong side of the Pickup
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Post by newey on Jul 9, 2021 6:47:23 GMT -5
The diagram you've posted does the series connections at positions 1 and 5. With the switch "up", you get the "cocked wah" sound at 2 and 4.
If you followed the diagram, what didn't work properly? We may be able to help with troubleshooting a specific problem.
But if the diagram wasn't what you wanted to begin with, that was not clear from your previous posts.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2021 7:29:36 GMT -5
its set up for position 1 and 5
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