Need help wiring a series/parallel switch

[drepo]

So I've been looking into how to use a mustang 3 way slide switch as a selector switch for two jazz bass pickups (having neck, neck+bridge, bridge) combined with a jazzmaster 2 way switch as a series/parallel selector, given the series mode only works when the middle position (neck+bridge) is engaged, but I can't quite figure it out (have 0 experience wiring). Any help is well appreciated!

[newey]

In order to switch 2 coils between series or parallel, a two-pole switch is required, referred to as a double-pole, double throw switch ("DPDT"). You need one of the "On-On" type.

Unfortunately, the Jazzmaster toggle switch is only a single pole switch. That may be why you're having trouble figuring this out- it can't be done with the switch you are proposing to use.

Fortunately, if it is a matter of fitting an existing hole in the guitar, DPDT toggle switches that are the same size as a Jazzmaster toggle are available. Another option would be to use a push/pull pot to replace one of the pots, and use that for the series/parallel switching, if there is not a hole to fill already.

Assuming you get the right switch, our member Jaga has already done the hard work for you. Here's a diagram of what you want. Go to Reply #17 in this thread:

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7957/position-slide-switch-fender-mustang

Note that jaga's diagram (which has been vetted and is correct) is for two coils of a single humbucker pickup, but 2 coils are 2 coils. Even though yours are 2 separate pickups, it's still 2 coils with 4 wires coming out. The diagram is the same either way.

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot my manners . . .

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

[Yogi B]

Aug 5, 2021 6:02:43 GMT -5 newey said:

Unfortunately, the Jazzmaster toggle switch is only a single pole switch.

drepo said "a jazzmaster 2 way switch" — so presumably that's the DPDT slide switch used to engage the rhythm circuit on a JM, not the 3-way pickup selector switch.

Assuming you get the right switch, our member Jaga has already done the hard work for you. Here's a diagram of what you want. Go to Reply #17

(Resisting the urge to quote the Mr. Preview sketch again) That does get the four combinations (neck, bridge, series, and parallel), but it's designed such that the DPDT acts as a "parallel overwrite" which isn't how I interpret drepo's request:

Aug 5, 2021 4:22:55 GMT -5 drepo said:

given the series mode only works when the middle position (neck+bridge) is engaged

Though that's not entirely clear, because it isn't necessarily "given" that the series mode need only operate in the middle position (for instance, the way this is done for Les Paul type wiring has the series setting take effect in all three switch positions).

However, because we've got a Mustang slider switch to work with, we should have more options — including having the series/parallel switch affect only the middle position. Hopefully I'll attach a schematic soon...

[drepo]

Aug 5, 2021 13:25:38 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

Aug 5, 2021 6:02:43 GMT -5 newey said:

drepo said "a jazzmaster 2 way switch" — so presumably that's the DPDT slide switch used to engage the rhythm circuit on a JM, not the 3-way pickup selector switch.

The problem with this one is that I believe it's a on/off switch, so I don't think it's going to work as a on/on. I fairly don't understand the difference between them

given the series mode only works when the middle position (neck+bridge) is engagedThough that's not entirely clear, because it isn't necessarily "given" that the series mode need only operate in the middle position (for instance, the way this is done for Les Paul type wiring has the series setting take effect in all three switch positions).

The problem is that I don't want the series to be eating the parallel mode, just want it in the middle position

Thank you for your answer! I think I figured out the way to do it (I've posted in several forums but haven't got any confirmation of the schematics working, yet)

www.ultimate-guitar.com/static/storage/forum/attachment/a/3/120974__JAZZ_MOD_SP_SS.pdf
This is a document I created trying to explain what I came up with, inside it has the schematics and an explanation for them. I supossed the Jazzmaster DPDT works as an ON-ON configuration (though it's supposed to be a ON-OFF [?]).Again, thank you!

[drepo]

I got this scheme from "James Collins" from TalkBass www.talkbass.com/attachments/img_20210806_000757-2-jpg.4359163/
Is this one right? This is what I got when I checked it www.talkbass.com/attachments/j_mod-jpg.4359253/
Edit: which is what I actually wanted

[Yogi B]

Aug 6, 2021 2:21:42 GMT -5 drepo said:

I think I figured out the way to do it (I've posted in several forums but haven't got any confirmation of the schematics working, yet)

This is a document I created trying to explain what I came up with, inside it has the schematics and an explanation for them.

With my eyes I get the same results as in your table at the end of the document.

I supposed the Jazzmaster DPDT works as an ON-ON configuration (though it's supposed to be a ON-OFF [?]).

I don't know where you heard that it's an ON-OFF, because as you supposed it is an ON-ON switch. With the stock JM wiring all six terminals are utilized, if it were a ON-OFF then two of those terminals would never be connected (and might even be missing / cut off).

Aug 6, 2021 5:42:36 GMT -5 drepo said:

I got this scheme from "James Collins" from TalkBass.
Is this one right? This is what I got when I checked it.

Unfortunately it is not correct, when selecting the P2 with the DPDT switch in parallel, there's another path that you must've missed when checking it (highlighted in blue below). This extra path links the volume pot's input to ground, thereby short-circuiting P2 and therefore this circuit will produce no output in that position.

Edit: which is what I actually wanted

Hopefully the following should get you that. I think it's right, but I could always do with having someone else checking it.

[drepo]

Thank you so much for your reply, really, really appreciate you comment!! Im checking it now, but still I got a question.

When the switch is in parallel and the pickup selector is in the third position (only pu 2), wouldn't the ground signal follow the parallel switch connection to the other ground spot (in orange)? I've marked hot in red and ground in orange: 

[Yogi B]

Aug 6, 2021 10:48:46 GMT -5 drepo said:

When the switch is in parallel and the pickup selector is in the third position (only pu 2), wouldn't the ground signal follow the parallel switch connection to the other ground spot (in orange)?

Yes, but that's not really the issue.

If you follow the combination of both the red & blue routes then the 'positive' end of PU2 is also connected to ground. Since both ends of the P2 are connected to the same place (ground) the voltage difference between ends of the coil will be zero (or incredibly close to it, as the hook-up wires do have a tiny amount of resistance), meaning there will be almost no voltage to drive the frontend of the amp/stompbox/interface that the bass is plugged into.

Alternatively, thinking in terms of current: the current through P2 is trying to flow in a complete circuit. Normally a large proportion of this current would flow through the input of the amp/stompbox/interface that the bass is plugged into. However, since current tends to follow the path of least resistance and the blue path represents a near zero resistance path: the majority of the current will flow via this route, leaving only a miniscule amount of current that can flow via the much higher resistance route provided by the amp/stompbox/interface.

[drepo]

Now I see, thank you so much!!! I'm still learning, I feel like I'm learning a ton with this thread.
BTW, top notch scheme you got there, can't stress it enough, thank you!!

I have another question around the Jazzmaster thing I commented on it being an ON/OFF switch. I was looking at the switches online and I found this seller www.ebay.es/itm/322476415050?hash=item4b1517984a:g:tX0AAOSwMz5fu9Sn that I though was cool because of the shipping price (usually websites charge a lot more just for the shipping and you'll end up paying more for it than for the pieces). The thing is that the page says the switch is wired as a ON/OFF, is it just an internal thing in the switch or does every switch work the same? (meaning if you pull up, the four first will connect vertically and viceversa)

[drepo]

Aug 5, 2021 6:02:43 GMT -5 newey said:

In order to switch 2 coils between series or parallel, a two-pole switch is required, referred to as a double-pole, double throw switch ("DPDT"). You need one of the "On-On" type.

Unfortunately, the Jazzmaster toggle switch is only a single pole switch. That may be why you're having trouble figuring this out- it can't be done with the switch you are proposing to use.

Fortunately, if it is a matter of fitting an existing hole in the guitar, DPDT toggle switches that are the same size as a Jazzmaster toggle are available. Another option would be to use a push/pull pot to replace one of the pots, and use that for the series/parallel switching, if there is not a hole to fill already.

Assuming you get the right switch, our member Jaga has already done the hard work for you. Here's a diagram of what you want. Go to Reply #17 in this thread:

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7957/position-slide-switch-fender-mustang

Note that jaga's diagram (which has been vetted and is correct) is for two coils of a single humbucker pickup, but 2 coils are 2 coils. Even though yours are 2 separate pickups, it's still 2 coils with 4 wires coming out. The diagram is the same either way.

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot my manners . . .

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

MY GOD I'm sorry that I'm replying late, thank you, this community is being awesomely helpful!

[reTrEaD]

Aug 6, 2021 10:13:42 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

Hopefully the following should get you that. I think it's right, but I could always do with having someone else checking it.

Yogi B , because of the excellent way you depict the Mustang switch and your choice to show the DPDT as a schematic representation, it makes it very easy to check the wiring for that one particular combination of switch positions. I've taken the liberty of butchering your drawing to show the other five combination of switch positions. Your wiring seems to work as-advertised.

Looking for one more set of eyes on this:

[drepo]

I've checked the scheme multiple times and it seems more than right to me.
This is the scheme I made, it is just the same transposed to an easier form to understand for me (I know it isn't as easy to check visualy BUT, it is what I'll be using to build the bass)




And this is the scheme once I have incorporated it into my final build scheme:






There are two diferent routes for the pickups:



Humbucker: PU> Tone pot> Selector switch> Master Volume> Output jack.



Jazz PU Circuit: PU's> Selector switch> Series/parallel switch> Push/pull Tone pot (capacitors mod)> Selector switch> Master Volume> Output jack.

Should there be any problem with this scheme?? It seems properly grounded to me but I would love to get a check!

[reTrEaD]

Aug 7, 2021 10:39:43 GMT -5 drepo said:

This is the scheme I made, it is just the same transposed to an easier form to understand for me (I know it isn't as easy to check visualy BUT, it is what I'll be using to build the bass)

To make it dead-easy to check, make SIX copies of this, then draw in the internal connections of the switches for each of the six combinations.

[drepo]

I missed saying that the way the first image is supposed to be readen is: 
Green: hot from neck pickup
Purple: hot you would get at middle position (bridge+ neck)
Blue: hot you would get from bridge pickup

Haven't drawn the ground signal though it's easier to follow.
Also, is the second image correct? Paths for the Humbucker and both Jazz PUs seem correct to me.

[Yogi B]

Aug 7, 2021 3:42:08 GMT -5 drepo said:

I have another question around the Jazzmaster thing I commented on it being an ON/OFF switch. I was looking at the switches online and I found this seller

The link reminded me that the same switch is used on Jaguars too — I had tunnel vision, only thinking about Jazzmasters. The circuit on the upper horn of a Jaguar is basically the same as that on the Jazzmaster (and uses an ON/ON DPDT), however the Jaguar's lower three switches are indeed used as on/off switches.

The thing is that the page says the switch is wired as a ON/OFF, is it just an internal thing in the switch or does every switch work the same? (meaning if you pull up, the four first will connect vertically and viceversa)

The description is a little misleading, the exact quote is "This switch is wired to operate as On/Off", but what it should say is something like: "This switch can be wired to operate as On/Off". The 2-way switches in the listing are ON/ON switches, it is just that every ON/ON switch could be wired to do everything that an ON/OFF switch could do.

Technically, by the usual usage of the terms, if a switch's action is ON/OFF then it isn't a double throw switch, but rather just a single throw switch. So "DPDT ON/OFF" is just a complicated way of saying "DPST".

Side note: As far as I know, way back in 1962 when the Jaguar was new, the three lower switches were (ON/ON) SPDT switches — but each switch had one of the terminals clipped off making them into (ON/OFF) SPSTs. On Fender's modern day reissues presumably to evoke some kind of "historical accuracy" they actually use (ON/OFF) SPST switches such as this one. However the switches in Squier Jaguars, any other Jaguar copies, and almost all that are commonly sold by guitar parts retailers are (ON/ON) DPDTs. Therefore, everyone else uses the exact same switch for all four switches on a Jaguar, this makes assembly easier as you don't have to care about which slot each switch goes in or which way it is orientated. And generally anyone in the aftermarket parts business wants a full DPDT, because it gives the most potential wiring options. The SPST that Darren Riley's store sells is only really for people who own a Fender that originally came with one of those switches and need to replace a faulty switch whilst keeping their guitar as close to stock as physically possible.

I though was cool because of the shipping price (usually websites charge a lot more just for the shipping and you'll end up paying more for it than for the pieces)

It's a pain. Off topic, but I'm currently looking a Fender (Strat) S1 knob & button in parchment (not aged white / cream), and I don't think I've found a single retailer on this side of the Atlantic (east) that sells both parts.

[drepo]

Woah, that was interesting as hell, had 0 idea. Thank you so much with your help!!

And hope that Fender Strat knob appears soon, cheers!! 

[unreg]

Aug 8, 2021 23:31:52 GMT -5 Yogi B said:

Off topic, but I'm currently looking a Fender (Strat) S1 knob & button in parchment (not aged white / cream), and I don't think I've found a single retailer on this side of the Atlantic (east) that sells both parts.

Honestly, my geography skills are poor. After some searching, I did find a US store selling your knob; this IS for two parts.

darrenriley.com/store/fender-s-1-knob-for-stratocaster-parchment/

Most of the links were from out of USA country, so I see your pain Yogi B. Sry if this does not help.


EDIT: further off topic: A map proves that the USA is east of the Atlantic Ocean since the globe is round…