Wiring Squier Stratocaster with HSH Lace Alumitones HELP!

[markt62]

Hey guys, I screwed up the super switch with a single drop of solder in the wrong place and then bent the very cheep mechanism trying to fix the solder mistake. I was hoping you might change the diagram so the 5 way switch will work. If you have one you would like to suggest I will order it or pic one. I am sorry to ask this and I was almost finished then drip it was all over. You have all helped so much I hate asking but cheap would be best and less complicated a real help, this will be the fourth switch after all (only screw this one up others did not work with pickups). Thanks in advance for yet another ask for help.

Mark

[Deleted]

Omg what did you do.
You never used desolder tool
Or the wheel (not sure what it is called but out it over the solder , heat up and it tags on to it)

Photos now I don't like waste and in this age we need to lean to recycle, dream of building one for car switch, think the heating vent system would make a good pickup selector

[jhng]

Dec 2, 2021 15:17:05 GMT -5 markt62 said:

Hey guys, I screwed up the super switch with a single drop of solder in the wrong place and then bent the very cheep mechanism trying to fix the solder mistake. I was hoping you might change the diagram so the 5 way switch will work. If you have one you would like to suggest I will order it or pic one. I am sorry to ask this and I was almost finished then drip it was all over. You have all helped so much I hate asking but cheap would be best and less complicated a real help, this will be the fourth switch after all (only screw this one up others did not work with pickups). Thanks in advance for yet another ask for help.

Mark

So frustrating! But it's worth taking the time to see if you can rescue the Superswitch by cleaning the solder off it and straightening the bits.

What other switches do you already have in hand? And do you still have the guitar's original stock switch?

[markt62]

Thanks for the the tip I did try for a long time to suck pull slide heat pick it out of the worst spot it could flow. It would not go into position  5 during my attempt to rescue it I ended up damaging the switch part bent it and it is done. I will recycle this part though as I do most of my drone electronics.

well it fell in the worst spot on the switch. I had some trouble with the small jumpers so soldered the tips together and that seamed to work. Had to go back to wire for the long ones and when put one on it splattered. I have a 5 position delivered tomorrow. it is cheaper and I hope it will put an end to this part of this project so I can get back to playing.

Great input thou!
Mark

[jhng]

Here is an amended diagram using a standard 5-way strat switch. The push/pull now operates as a simple 'Bridge On' switch.

There is one Tone Control for N, N+M, M and M+B and a second Tone Control for M+B and B. Note that in the M+B position both tone controls will therefore be on. This may darken the tone a little in that position. It is a characteristic feature of traditional strat wiring (typically either on N+M or M+B depending on how the tone controls are wired). You can still get M+B with only one tone control by pulling the 'Bridge On' switch when in the Middle Only position. That should be a slightly brighter version of M+B.

[markt62]

Thanks again Jhng for the assistance I could not have done any of this without you. I hope to finish to night or tomorrow and I will send a picture and let you know how it sounds. 

Sorry did not see your question before drawing. I will take another look at the switch, I have both 5 way FreeSwitch's one for singles and one for humbuckers that does not work with Alumitones. I will sale them I soldered one and have not touched the other.

Let me know if I can help You!
Mark

[Deleted]

Can we have a photo of the switch damage , was thinking desolder wick

[markt62]

I will be glad to post a picture of the switch but I need to finish the guitar first it is taking up the dinning room table and you all know what kind of problems that causes with wives and such. To that end everything works except touching it makes it pop and crack. I attach a ground to the guitar jack plate and to the copper tape lining the chamber or back of pick guard and the piping and cracking goes away. 

My question is why does the ground wire already running to the ground terminal on the jack not already?

the diagram show nothing running to ground from the jack is that missing?

I am sure I would have other questions if I was smart enough about the subject matter to ask!

thanks in advance for any assistance and I will get back to the switch as soon as my wife is safe to speak to again.

Thanks 
Mark

[psiloguitarensis]

those alumitones are the mini coils inside only as big as 3 pole pieces? if so how does that work in coil split mode?

would tone be all that effcted if you do that 3 poles on north coil 3 poles on south coil opposed to each other? thats as a standard paf humbucker. 

reading the specs on those alumitones the aluminum was a good choice since its conductive but not anywhere near as copper. 

i saw the pickup was 3.4k 1.6h interesting  they said is was a bright tone. curious how that works if aluminum aides in better mag field consistency.

[newey]

My question is why does the ground wire already running to the ground terminal on the jack not already?

the diagram show nothing running to ground from the jack is that missing?

If running an extra ground wire solved the problem, then the original ground was likely not well-connected. On your diagram, the output jack negative (the sleeve connection) is shown as being grounded to the back of the volume pot, and the other grounds are collected there as well. That is fine, assuming good connections are made there. I try to avoid soldering to the backs of the pots, so I use a "star grounding" technique, but grounding to the pots is fine if done properly and if good connections are made.

[markt62]

I don't disagree with that thought but it is where I have to add the wire that is bothering me. If I connect another wire to the ground terminal of the jack like the diagram it does not help the hum. But if I hold it to the jack plate itself and then to ground in the same place as the negative terminal the hum is gone and no hum quite. So I don't think the drawing is wrong but I do think that the copper tape in the jack cavity is not grounded to the copper tape in the pickup cavity. Maybe that is causing it. But current grounds are all working and when I say grounding the plate I mean the actual plate.

Mark

[unreg]

Dec 7, 2021 12:26:41 GMT -5 markt62 said:

But if I hold it to the jack plate itself and then to ground in the same place as the negative terminal the hum is gone and no hum quite.

Note: If you are actually touching the wire during that hold, your body becomes the ground destination… which equates to the “hum is gone and no hum quite”. 🙂


EDIT: Same would happen if you are touching whatever (i.e. the jack plate)… this is evident when silence occurs while the strings are touched. (Though, that’s good bc silence while touching the strings means your string ground is wired correctly.

And since your body becomes the ground destination, the temporary silence means everything touching the strings is therefore soldered well.)

[markt62]

I guess I thought it went without saying that I am not touching the wire only the insulation other wise the test would be invalid and all this typing on an iPad would be for not! Lol!

Thanks
Mark

[newey]

Dec 7, 2021 12:26:41 GMT -5 markt62 said:

but I do think that the copper tape in the jack cavity is not grounded to the copper tape in the pickup cavity. Maybe that is causing it. But current grounds are all working and when I say grounding the plate I mean the actual plate.

Unless you ran a wire between the control cavity and the jack cavity, how would that grounding occur? The shielding in the control cavity and the pickup cavity on a Strat are usually connected via the shielding on the underside of the pcikguard, but the pickguard doesn't extand to the jackplate.

I have had problems in the past with trying to use copper tape to shield the jack cavity on Strats, the clearances in there are often too close. There is really no need to shield that jack cavity anyway, the small little wire runs in there aren't likely to be a significant source of noise, and the metal jack plate will provide some shielding anyway.. I'd try removing that little bit of shielding from the jack cavity and see if the problem goes away.

[jhng]

I realise that my diagram doesn’t show the grounding of the guitar hardware. On any guitar there should be a ground connection that goes to the hardware and grounds the strings. On a Strat it is usually attached in the trem cavity and goes through a little hole into the main cavity where it will be attached to ground somewhere (very often back of a pot, or to the shielding if any or a star ground).

Just double-check that you’ve still got that ground connection to the strings in place and see if that helps.

[psiloguitarensis]

those alumitones are the coils inside only as have 3 pole pieces? if so how does that work in coil split mode? and maintain tone 


would tone be all that effcted with a full coi but only 3 pole pieces per coil. it sounded great on video.



i saw the pickup was 3.4k 1.6h interesting they said is was a bright tone like a normal pickup, curious how that works. wonder if aluminum aides in better mag field consistency?

[gckelloch]

Dec 8, 2021 16:32:47 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

those alumitones are the coils inside only as have 3 pole pieces? if so how does that work in coil split mode? and maintain tone 


would tone be all that effcted with a full coi but only 3 pole pieces per coil. it sounded great on video.



i saw the pickup was 3.4k 1.6h interesting they said is was a bright tone like a normal pickup, curious how that works. wonder if aluminum aides in better mag field consistency?

Someone else could probably explain this better, but IIRC Alumitones have a thin strip of Copper as the "coil" inside a type of impedance transformer. The Al (Aluminum) frame above acts as a "collector" of the field from the strings to generate a signal in the very Lo-Z coil, which is then transformed to Hi-Z. The strings are magnetized by the ceramic bars embedded in the Al frame. It should be noted that the magnets needn't be located inside a guitar pickup for a signal to be generated in the coil. It could be above the strings and a signal would still be generated, with the exception the magnetic alloy has on coil inductance and impedance.

Al is only "paramagnetic". That means it generates a weak circular/diagonal field on the surface and in polarity with a nearby magnetic field. That weak field can create eddy-currents in a coil which may reinforce or cancel some level of the magnetic string vibrations depending on the total mass, shape, and orientation of the Al structure to the coil. It also affects the electric portion of the signal regardless of external magnetic vibrations -- one test showed that a thin Aluminum Strat pickguard reduced an electrical signal put through a SC pickup by 2dB above 1kHz. My understanding is that mainly just the upper-midrange of the magnetic string vibration signal is further reduced in accordance with the thickness of Al orientated to a coil in that way. A thick piece of Al a pickup will also substantially reduce AC noise in a coil when in the path from the source, but even thin Al shielding will substantially reduce AC noise from an unshielded rheostat.

I assume Alumitone SC's are not very noisy, but I don't know how the Al structure affects the tone. The specs list Rz (Resonance) peaks in the 2~2.5kHz range, (assuming the meter probes were directly on the pickup leads or contact points). That's a very low Rz range for a 1.6H pickup -- more like something in the 20H+ range (depending on internal capacitance). Regardless, they do seem to have more high-end extension than most pickups in the demos I've heard, but there may also be significantly more high-end roll-off than a typical AlNiCo (or other relatively inert alloy) core pickup of equal inductance. Perhaps the single strip "coil" has a very strong, very high freq Rz, which is then damped down by the much lower Rz of the transformer, so that there is a slight hump in the 2-2.5kHz range and a mild roll-off above that? Of course, there may be a more complex interaction between the different parts of the pickup to produce something different than I imagine.

[psiloguitarensis]

had to read it more then once but good explanation. thats really awesome how it works.  like to so a analyzed copy of the frequency output. i couldnt tell from vids how pronouned the bass is compared to treble but it seemed bright. watching vids on pickup winding,, a consistent winding brings about more bass most videos said. so they use a combo of different staggers to create a pickup. i have a winder otw and ordering some bobbins from tonekraft and just not  sure which wire i want. havnt found a good comparsion video of wire demo using say a single coil all wrapped to same specs even number like 7k and see how it effects tone that way.



BTW  i wasnt trying hijack no thread was reading it looked the coils up and found them awesome and intriguing 

[gckelloch]

Dec 9, 2021 11:07:34 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

had to read it more then once but good explanation. thats really awesome how it works.  like to so a analyzed copy of the frequency output. i couldnt tell from vids how pronouned the bass is compared to treble but it seemed bright. watching vids on pickup winding,, a consistent winding brings about more bass most videos said. so they use a combo of different staggers to create a pickup. i have a winder otw and ordering some bobbins from tonekraft and just not  sure which wire i want. havnt found a good comparsion video of wire demo using say a single coil all wrapped to same specs even number like 7k and see how it effects tone that way.



BTW  i wasnt trying hijack no thread was reading it looked the coils up and found them awesome and intriguing 

I honestly wouldn't pay much attention to what YT pickup winders say. The vast majority don't understand the basics. Any kind of layered winding will reduce coil efficiency, which will generally reduce the ratio of stronger to weaker vibrations (generally the first several harmonics of each note) and the attack to sustain level rather than "increase bass", but there can also be various cancelations depending on the core alloy dimensions and properties within a given coil. Older lacquer wire insulation types can also crack around the bobbin edges and cause semi-shorts, while the polyester wire would stretch and simply produce higher internal capacitance.

The Elektrisola wire sold here is great stuff and relatively inexpensive:

www.remingtonindustries.com/brands/Elektrisola.html

The Polyamideimide insulation doesn't stretch like the old Polyester stuff. Winders report enamel wire producing less high-end. That could be due to increased capacitance, semi-shorts and/or how inconsistent insulation thickness increases coil size and creates some cancelation with given pole piece alloys. For better consistency, I'd use Polyamideimide wire and experiment with gauge and coil shapes.

It makes no sense to wind thinner wire on the same bobbin height as thicker wire. The lower portion of the coil is essentially wasted wire. The coil should really be shortened in accordance with wire thickness to produce the most efficient coil. FI, three gauge sizes higher is ~1/2 the DCR and ~65% as thick, so the bobbin should be ~1/2 the height to get the same coil width at the same wind count.

Dr, Scott Lawing (Zexcoil pickups) said he gets fairly high permeability A2 magnets. It's virtually the same as A3, but a bit stronger Guass. I think it's vacuum-sintered, which might be a more expensive process than casting. Scott is a really cool guy. Maybe he would tell you where and what kind he gets? You could also order A4 from this UK company:
www.alegree.co.uk/collections/stratocaster-pickup-building-supplies

A4 is just a bit higher Guass than A2, but even higher permeability. A5 tends to cause too much string pull that sounds harsh, and the lower permeability reduces efficiency and may reduce lower harmonic strength. Fender actually had a weaker/softer AV grade made back in the '60s so it could be cut without chipping. That was apparently the only reason earlier pole pieces were beveled.

[psiloguitarensis]

welp im going take your advice and i order 1lb of that poly wire. i chose 42awg for what im going to do and going shoot for about 6k. thinking of buying 43 awg to rewrap current coils after i get done wiring my own pickups.
am i able to test the ohms before i finish wrapping or  like checking as i go or the extra wire attached would give me a false reading? i do have a rough idea that 7k turns with 42 awg should be about 5.5-6k 

i like how you put that. the more i read it the more i understand what your saying. all it did was got me to google so much crap last night lmmfao


reading that response has me so curious to experiment with wire sizes. like what issue would arise if i used 42 for base layer say 1k wraps then switch to 42.5 or 43 to finish out the wrapping.
 or maybe using 2 wire sizes at once or even three. i suspect though one would have a very robust voiced coil even at lower ohms. now im going get lost in making pickups for myself trying different ideas.
btw im more then happy to try stuff noone has if you have ideas. im absolutely excited i got a pickup winder on the way. a i cant do my welding job atm got injured on dirtbike went back
job didnt follow light duty orders reinjured my shoulder so it feels and boss fired me so i got plenty of time unless wife kills me while looking for a new job.

[gckelloch]

Dec 10, 2021 11:03:02 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

welp im going take your advice and i order 1lb of that poly wire. i chose 42awg for what im going to do and going shoot for about 6k. thinking of buying 43 awg to rewrap current coils after i get done wiring my own pickups.
am i able to test the ohms before i finish wrapping or  like checking as i go or the extra wire attached would give me a false reading? i do have a rough idea that 7k turns with 42 awg should be about 5.5-6k 

i like how you put that. the more i read it the more i understand what your saying. all it did was got me to google so much crap last night lmmfao


reading that response has me so curious to experiment with wire sizes. like what issue would arise if i used 42 for base layer say 1k wraps then switch to 42.5 or 43 to finish out the wrapping.
 or maybe using 2 wire sizes at once or even three. i suspect though one would have a very robust voiced coil even at lower ohms. now im going get lost in making pickups for myself trying different ideas.
btw im more then happy to try stuff noone has if you have ideas. im absolutely excited i got a pickup winder on the way. a i cant do my welding job atm got injured on dirtbike went back
job didnt follow light duty orders reinjured my shoulder so it feels and boss fired me so i got plenty of time unless wife kills me while looking for a new job.

42AWG only became a standard because it was the thinnest gauge the Fender ladies could all wind quickly on the modified sewing machine. Thinner wire no doubt required a slower more delicate touch = less company profit. There's nothing inherently better about 42AWG, but it is probably better for clarity in the neck pos with weaker-Guass/high-permeability pole pieces. So, I can see using it there. Thicker wire coils are less: sensitive, efficient, and dynamic (at the same string distance). Scott Lawing mentioned experimenting with mixing wire gauges in his Zexcoil prototypes, but he abandoned that in favor of different pole-piece alloys and sizes with the same thin (44AWG?) wire coils. So I don't recommend it either, but I do recommend making custom height bobbins to compare different wire gauge coils of the same wind count and width.

The pole pieces should also be at least a few millimeters above the top of the coil to avoid stray flux line cancelations, but the old Fender pole stagger doesn't make sense for a plain G-string, and I don't think the high-E pole being higher than the B makes sense anymore either. I think that was originally from P90 size coils with shorter magnets or something. I'd just do a radius-based stagger with the G-string 1~2mm lower than the D. Perhaps the B and E could just be flush with the bobbin cover top to get a fatter timbre?

Another thing to try would be to use 42AWG for the neck, 43AWG for the middle, and 44AWG for the bridge (if your machine can do 44AWG). Determine the bobbin height for each coil to get the most of each coil closest to the strings within the bobbin cover width, and glue fiberglass flatware onto the pole pieces (and lacquer them to prevent potential wire insulation corrosion). That way, the natural loss of lower harmonics toward the bridge position would be somewhat countered with the denser coils. My Wilde Micro-Coils have Elektrisola 46AWG wire. The permalloy pole screws can be adjusted for individual note timber per pickup position -- no need for different wire gauges. The high-end loss from the higher DCR of thinner wire is insignificant, and more coil wire closer to the strings will at least make up for the slight output decrease.

Incidentally, I think 8k winds of 42AWG wire = ~5.8k Ohms depending on wind tension. That should yield ~2.6H with high permeability A2 poles. Late 60's Fender SC's with the "soft" A5 poles were ~2.3H. 10% inductance difference is barely discernible to the ear = ~1 notch on the tone knob.

I've never wound my own pickups, but I'd think insulating such thin wire if it breaks while winding would be problematic at best. I wouldn't bother making tapped pickups either. The Wilde 'Q-Filter' offers the same feature by simply lowering the pickup inductance. It works especially well on a pickup in the 4~5H range, but can also be used on lower inductance pickups to dip the midrange.

Oh, and you could try placing some long Steel brads on the bottom of the bridge pickup to draw the string flux lines down more, along with a slight inductance increase and high-end roll-off. I guess the bottom of the poles would have to be flush for that.

OK? That's really all I have to offer on the topic. Happy winding.

[psiloguitarensis]

is there a post about his attempt and experiments with the zexcoil? would  love to consume  his info and findings.

 thicker wire gives less inductance due to smaller field so  quieter tone correct? if that is true then  definitely experimenting with different gauge wire in different positions is feasible.
maybe even same wire size for mid and bridge 43awg to keep tonal  changes  similar with these to pickups.

i dont see tone being awesome using  42 for  neck and 44 for mid and bridge seem to me it be way to much  change tonally considering the amount of wire change from 42 to 44 on a pickup.

from google i never found a clear answer other that 42awg pickups average 6-8k and 9-12k in over wound  

for that i would like to try a 42 neck and a 43  mid but close to same inductance range about 6k that should pair nicely with a 8k humbucker.

that  humbucker is all alnico 2 magnets, i  do have a plan of using tone kraft to build bobbins. with information ive read my plan is a bobbin @ .630 with DG .187 thick Alnico 5 with bevel and EABE will be .195 Alnico 21 with vintage bevel.

middle  bobbin will be .693 in height  with same  magnet setup as neck alnico 2 for EABE and 5 for DG. the new difference   in height should help  a bit with tone but i ask does that mean i should make mid pickup hotter then neck   pickup?

do both neck  and mid have to be  same ohms? if so then i can i check pickups ohm at any given time while winding so i can get them both the same in ohms if i   need them to  be that way?

[gckelloch]

Dec 11, 2021 17:28:33 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

is there a post about his attempt and experiments with the zexcoil? would  love to consume  his info and findings.

 thicker wire gives less inductance due to smaller field so  quieter tone correct? if that is true then  definitely experimenting with different gauge wire in different positions is feasible.
maybe even same wire size for mid and bridge 43awg to keep tonal  changes  similar with these to pickups.

i dont see tone being awesome using  42 for  neck and 44 for mid and bridge seem to me it be way to much  change tonally considering the amount of wire change from 42 to 44 on a pickup.

from google i never found a clear answer other that 42awg pickups average 6-8k and 9-12k in over wound  

for that i would like to try a 42 neck and a 43  mid but close to same inductance range about 6k that should pair nicely with a 8k humbucker.

that  humbucker is all alnico 2 magnets, i  do have a plan of using tone kraft to build bobbins. with information ive read my plan is a bobbin @ .630 with DG .187 thick Alnico 5 with bevel and EABE will be .195 Alnico 21 with vintage bevel.

middle  bobbin will be .693 in height  with same  magnet setup as neck alnico 2 for EABE and 5 for DG. the new difference   in height should help  a bit with tone but i ask does that mean i should make mid pickup hotter then neck   pickup?

do both neck  and mid have to be  same ohms? if so then i can i check pickups ohm at any given time while winding so i can get them both the same in ohms if i   need them to  be that way?

I'll try to decipher what I can from your questions. First, the DCR increases by ~2x every 3 gauge sizes. The same length of 45AWG is ~2x the DCR of 42AWG and ~66% diameter. Yes, thinner wire does produce slightly lower inductance at the same wrap count, but I think it's only ~10% per higher gauge number. So, you'd only need ~5% more winds of each higher gauge to get the same inductance. You'd have to look into that to confirm, though.

Even at 12k DCR of 44AWG, the high end wouldn't be significantly less than 6k of 42AWG. The main difference would be the level of lower to upper-harmonics, assuming the coil height is adequately compensated. You'll have to figure some maths for that.

I don't know exactly where Scott mentioned using different wire gauges but check out his blog at the Zexcoil site. Lots of myths busted there.

If you want to mix magnets, the idea is the use lower-gauss/higher-permeability poles on the top three plain strings, and maybe higher-gauss/lower-permeability on the low wound strings, but full strength 1100G A5 pulls so hard it creates a harsh sound. I'd just find the higher permeability A2 I mentioned and use pole length and height to get the note output you want. Really, that's all I have to say on the subject. You'll have to do the rest yourself.

[psiloguitarensis]

sorry about that. 

ive chosen to order bobbins one with a magnet height of .630  which i will press bobbin flush with magnet to know its height and use 42awg wire. also will mix and match alnico 2 and 5 to see what the tonal changes will be.

middle pickup i was going to make bobbin magnets .693 in height and use same magnet setup as  neck up but use  43 awg wire. 

i rss that zexcoil blog lots of good info and interveiws with guitarist from steely dan. 

that  zexcoil is quite unique and i like it. i'd burn him  out asking questions about his stuff and he would probably assume i was  stealing information from him hahahah.

i have to think you could just wrap normal pole pieces as he has done but would net way less output then a normal pickup and  thus why he used slanted design so he could get bigger coils and get his his output back.

[gckelloch]

Dec 11, 2021 19:38:33 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

sorry about that. 

ive chosen to order bobbins one with a magnet height of .630  which i will press bobbin flush with magnet to know its height and use 42awg wire. also will mix and match alnico 2 and 5 to see what the tonal changes will be.

middle pickup i was going to make bobbin magnets .693 in height and use same magnet setup as  neck up but use  43 awg wire. 

i rss that zexcoil blog lots of good info and interveiws with guitarist from steely dan. 

that  zexcoil is quite unique and i like it. i'd burn him  out asking questions about his stuff and he would probably assume i was  stealing information from him hahahah.

i have to think you could just wrap normal pole pieces as he has done but would net way less output then a normal pickup and  thus why he used slanted design so he could get bigger coils and get his his output back.

Yes, the slanted pole design also keeps the string within the field while bending. In conjunction with the very high permeability alloys, it also minimizes any inter-coil cancelations. It's a brilliant and very efficient design.

P.S. You really won't get the benefit of the increased lower harmonic strength of the thinner wire coil if you don't shorten the coil height accordingly. The pole piece length can then be the same for each pickup. The wire on the lower portion of the bobbin won't contribute much to the signal. The magnetic force from the strings is weaker by the square of the distance, which is also the same calculation for the wind count and the increase in coil inductance. You don't need stronger magnets in the positions closer to the bridge if you start by setting the coil to string distances equal for each pickup while depressing the 20th fret. Maybe use the longer magnets on just the A, D, and maybe G string of each pickup? Also, the poles should not be flush with the bobbin top. They need to be above the coil top by at least 1/10" to avoid stray flux line cancelations. Flush to the bobbin cover is fine. Really man, I need to get back to my life. Good luck.

[gckelloch]

So did you order bobbins of a preset height? Whatever you bought, you should at least know that the pole spacing is ~2mm different for each pos on a Strat to accommodate the nut to bridge width difference. If you bought flatware, you can set the bobbin height for each pickup. Here's what I figured, and I welcome correction:

43AWG wire is ~33% of ~33% less thick than 42AWG wire:

0.33 x 0.34 = ~0.11.

You would then multiply the height of the 42AWG coil by 0.89 twice to get the same coil width for the same wind count of 43AWG. All else being equal, I think the 43AWG coil would mainly increase lower note harmonics at the same string distance, yet be slightly lower inductance. Someone on the Music Electronics Forum might know how much inductance loss there is from 1 thinner wire gauge. You can determine how to compensate for that by reversing the wind-count squared = inductance change formula. Pickup winders may not generally adjust the coil height for wire gauge, so they assume thinner wire coils are just weaker or whatnot.

This calc indicates that the inductance actually increases for a shorter coil with the same wind count of thinner wire:
www.allaboutcircuits.com/tools/coil-inductance-calculator/

Only 10% shorter increases inductance just over 10%. Not sure if it's the same for an oblong coil with so much air in the core though. I guess some experimentation is in order.

[psiloguitarensis]

i havnt had the time to order the bobbins yet i backtracked a bit and did plenty of reading i come up with a new bobbin height of .209. that should be a good starting point for height with 43awg.

when i order im going order a few sets so i can play with information i have found from those zexcoil blogs and other reading.

that zexcoil is a beast of design and his blogs are amazing to read and have given some awesome ideas for pickup design. though ill stay standard design but play with inductance through permability instead of coil design as he has done.

i would love to buy a set of those zexcoils some day when i get a sss configuration guitar.

my stock coil spacing is 7mm ( .28) i used your math and came up with 5.6mm (.221788) spacing for 43awg and 4.4mm (.175678) for 44awg. 

with those measurements i'm thinking about buying enough to do 2 sets of 42awg to play with height a bit and 2 sets for mid.
i am going to use the 42awg in neck and 43 in mid and experiment with magnets and such as much as i can afford lol.

[gckelloch]

Dec 24, 2021 0:00:21 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

i havnt had the time to order the bobbins yet i backtracked a bit and did plenty of reading i come up with a new bobbin height of .209. that should be a good starting point for height with 43awg.

when i order im going order a few sets so i can play with information i have found from those zexcoil blogs and other reading.

that zexcoil is a beast of design and his blogs are amazing to read and have given some awesome ideas for pickup design. though ill stay standard design but play with inductance through permability instead of coil design as he has done.

i would love to buy a set of those zexcoils some day when i get a sss configuration guitar.

my stock coil spacing is 7mm ( .28) i used your math and came up with 5.6mm (.221788) spacing for 43awg and 4.4mm (.175678) for 44awg. 

with those measurements i'm thinking about buying enough to do 2 sets of 42awg to play with height a bit and 2 sets for mid.
i am going to use the 42awg in neck and 43 in mid and experiment with magnets and such as much as i can afford lol.

You mention two different coil heights for the 43AWG. I don't know if the shorter coil height with the thinner wire will increase inductance as it seems to using the Coil Inductance Calc. Perhaps fewer winds on the 0.209" bobbin height would compensate? I'd wind just one 43AWG coil first and check the inductance compared to the 0.028" 42AWG coil if you have a meter for that. You can also run white noise through an earbud pressed the top of a pickup plugged into a Hi-Z A/I unit and check the resonance peak freq with an SPL analyzer app on a computer. If the peak freq is lower, it's higher inductance. I wouldn't bother rewinding if the peak is within 10% of the 42AWG coil, but it's your call on that.

AFAIK, the different AlNiCo grades don't make enough difference in inductance for it to matter. The main difference is in how much they pull the flux lines from the strings down through the coil vs how much they pull on the strings. I may have mentioned that you could experiment with taping several galvanized 2.5" nails on the pickup bottom to increase the flux line pull without much affecting the inductance. FI, you could try that with A2 to make it sound more like A4.

[psiloguitarensis]

yes different coil heights. i thought maybe to make a taller coil maybe .300 even that way i could do the .221 for mid but also could try a .243 as well. bridge would be an over would .221 and overwound .243 by maybe 20% not much i like smoother older tones but love cant pull myself away from those glassy quacky blues tones. 

personally ill be chasing that ultimate quacky bright warm glassy articulate tone and maybe even make one or two extra sets to share with folks.

with the tone im chasing ill be mostly experimenting with changing aspects that will aid in achieving that tone.

i have heard of using baseplates of 1/8th thick to make pickups more harmonic or twangy couldnt remember. i do love stevie rays 84 daNo electrics lipstick pickups. 

[gckelloch]

Dec 24, 2021 5:39:11 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

yes different coil heights. i thought maybe to make a taller coil maybe .300 even that way i could do the .221 for mid but also could try a .243 as well. bridge would be an over would .221 and overwound .243 by maybe 20% not much i like smoother older tones but love cant pull myself away from those glassy quacky blues tones. 

personally ill be chasing that ultimate quacky bright warm glassy articulate tone and maybe even make one or two extra sets to share with folks.

with the tone im chasing ill be mostly experimenting with changing aspects that will aid in achieving that tone.

i have heard of using baseplates of 1/8th thick to make pickups more harmonic or twangy couldnt remember. i do love stevie rays 84 daNo electrics lipstick pickups. 

You can still get smooth 4kHz+ "articulation" from a ~4H bridge pickup with 250K pots a low capacitance (~200pF) cable into a 1M Ohm input. Those three factors are equally important and cannot be over-looked. 20% more winds on a 2.5H pickup might come out to ~4H depending on coil height. I don't know.

1/8" is much too thick for a Steel baseplate. 1/32-1/16" is all that's needed. I suppose there might be some twangy resonance through the pickup on a Tele as the vibrations come from the Steel bridge plate through the pickup screws, but the bridge plate vibrations would be heard through the pickup anyway if string flux lines go through the edges near the coil. That wouldn't happen with nails taped to the pickup bottom. There should only be stronger lows and slightly higher inductance. Again, I'd cover the pole ends with something first just so the galvanizimg doesn't somehow cause breakdown of the AlNiCo poles, and make sure the nails can't short the pickup connection lugs. Steel baseplates were usually Cu-coated, so Cu tape should be good, and it would ground the nails to the poles if the adhesive is conductive. That's all for now. Let me know if you follow what I just suggested.

P.S. Not sure why you chose 7mm for the height of the 42AWG coil. I think these are standard Fender SC bobbins, and the height spacing is 11.78mm:
www.ebay.com/itm/373626751620?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111314%26meid%3D074705e45a7f4d65b5e5538cd7d90558%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D293245220710%26itm%3D373626751620%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeed%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A373626751620074705e45a7f4d65b5e5538cd7d90558%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAACILjn3zT%252BPkKPiSYlbLSeSePiK5a%252FcnJ2iv6SUxnW%252BvIh9Her%252BzEze1u%252Fr9H6rGHc7kQv79ELOSUWDtu%252F%252FSju6I1KHE%252FpwSp91Lll7FaXx%252FmnlFhaVTGP3ng4MmuMLhZcegtuOovaC70tnxyHESuOhhmbzrE5NUMVLus9l4l6DClAd3WoWNAFQycq3r9hC9%252FtjlcfKqX88VlulAISqNscGFrV2jMZe4XPnweqHxQgx8NmNy54ZcdRaIFwfW4YAUSvRGgnKNOiP23HaipFXwYJT3RfC9Jau9A2mWkIaGrlytWXv1rZkmtpCXO61K9zTABIIu9shUkUphJBNIOrqV2ZaT56fLE7xE0RmwNlwcdrUmccdde6rMU3d9Q6lOTdWU19wBeOI2FF%252FDG7CN8IOKYjf4VLycbCXBI5Erc1CzTWFT6BHU%252BOvZmEf8oPTfYfHi3NuXKYLnue3yVw7dopDap%252BMD2ejnruse614%252BmDDvOQleELXph24uU0aLiOKRAnLsJt86GVGLWRJj%252BIG1tM49JlZOgw3A6vZJCYEh5fxQSeKEdTPeWrU0sI7yy68f7OmGOgqPEnktOc%252FK0ROvteQ6GneMV1iAk9LCdeATAPSDrkhdDSzThZ6sK8C8ah7sYmCp6OWAq6ohvt6lltBlNoxuav9MzpUZOspD9tBdXKjvf7YNxw0xjcFKgWuC3D20%252FWLyRbs0OxnbTkn41gqDOoie0QpBM%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675

You may not be able to fit the pickup cover over 8k winds of 42AWG on a 7mm bobbin space.