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Post by psiloguitarensis on Dec 26, 2021 14:20:32 GMT -5
next time i go buy strings im going to buy a few nails to try that trick out.
my current stock pickups are 7mm in height so that was the starting point. it uses steel pole pieces and small bar magnet under pole pieces. pole pieces stick quite far past bottom of coil. and pole pieces are pressed flush with top bobbin plate.
also thought some squier fans page i found said 42awg and alnico 5 magnet is how coil was built.
between the information you gracious bestowed upon thine pages of manifesto and that zexcoil blog i think ill end up with some nice pickups. im going to try a few different things since theres so many different ways to mod the same coil.
im glad you posted stock fender height. my coils are way smaller quite a bit smaller and i want the new ones to be right. i perfer measure and question twice build once.
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 26, 2021 15:34:06 GMT -5
next time i go buy strings im going to buy a few nails to try that trick out. my current stock pickups are 7mm in height so that was the starting point. it uses steel pole pieces and small bar magnet under pole pieces. pole pieces stick quite far past bottom of coil. and pole pieces are pressed flush with top bobbin plate. also thought some squier fans page i found said 42awg and alnico 5 magnet is how coil was built. between the information you gracious bestowed upon thine pages of manifesto and that zexcoil blog i think ill end up with some nice pickups. im going to try a few different things since theres so many different ways to mod the same coil. im glad you posted stock fender height. my coils are way smaller quite a bit smaller and i want the new ones to be right. i perfer measure and question twice build once. Your Steel poled pickups likely have much less winds than an AlNiCo pole pickup of the same inductance. I had a set of those and I think they measured 4.6k Ohm and 2.3H. I assume with 42AWG. I guess the bobbins were shortened to compensate. I don't have any standard Fender height bobbins. The standard might be 1/2" and based on the old heavy formvar insulation wire. You could make the 42AWG coil a bit shorter without it being too wide with 8k winds of the thin insulation wire. Maybe try 1cm height with 8k winds of that and see what you think? |
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Post by psiloguitarensis on Dec 31, 2021 0:12:30 GMT -5
sorry been busy havnt even been able order anything which is ok when i do get to build everything that will be sweet.
my plan is to buy 5 sets of neck and mid pickup bobbins
width pos wire width pos wire
1 @1/2/{neck}(42) 1/2 {mid}(43)
1 @15/32 {neck}(42) 7/16 {mid}(43)
1 @13/32 {neck}(43) 3/8 {mid}(43)
1 @13/32 {neck}(42) 13/32{mid}(43)
1 @1/2{neck}(42) 7/16 or 13/32 {mid}(42)
thats my plan. then id like to build a jig to be able test them understrings installed in a pickguard with pots off to side for easy access.
as it will aloud my to try different pot values wiring setups and such before installing. im going to invest a fair bit of time in coils to expand my knowledge.
personally my wife properly thinks im investing far to much time to build myself the perfect coils for me lol when i oculd save up and buy a custom set for 500-1000 dollars.
i am vastly intriged by the knowledge here and how much information can be learn about guitars. so again thanks for all your help and information and wish you a most awesome new year.
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Post by newey on Dec 31, 2021 7:10:08 GMT -5
my wife properly thinks im investing far to much time to build myself the perfect coils for me lol when i oculd save up and buy a custom set for 500-1000 dollars. I've never wound pickups, but if I've learned anything hangin' around this joint, it's that there is no need to pay big bucks for a set of pickups. Good quality replacement pickups can be had for reasonable dollars. antigua and others in the Pickups section here have demonstrated that there is no magic elixir, a pickup's function can be pretty well defined by its construction and materials used. And the websites of most pickup manufacturers are light on the science and heavy on the marketing drivel. And putting a $300 set of pickups into a $500 guitar doesn't give you an $800 guitar. How often have we seen someone replace pickups, dislike the new ones, buy another set, still not be satisfied- and off they go down the merry road of pickup swapping, searching for that elusive "killer tone". (And, that tone is likely to be found, not with expensive pickups, but with more practice . . .  ) If you want to learn about pickups and you get satisfaction from creating something yourself. by all means, wind your own. It will be a great experience if you enter into it with the right expectations. But if your expectation is that you are going to wind up a set that has some magic mojo unavailable from SD or DM's (or innumerable others) replacement offerings, then I think you're bound to be frustrated. |
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Post by psiloguitarensis on Dec 31, 2021 14:04:20 GMT -5
much for the reason to experiment is just satisfaction. im a builder hands on kinda of person and perfer the mechanical levels over technicals. to much to explore to sit idlely im very spastic and chaos reigns my brain.
im almost positive i could find my tone with a zexcoil but wheres that fun. im also just wanting to explore beyond what little information the NAMES will share out there. that feller with zexcoil is a very gracious person to share as much as he has.
i like information like linux free and open. imho the feller with zex , crushed design theory for pickups and blew the box out.
plus i enjoy the exchange of ideas. who knew guitars had so much information to offer i didnt until i found this site.
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 31, 2021 17:34:07 GMT -5
Yeah, it sounds like a fun experiment, but I'd start with some shorter coil heights. As I mentioned, I think the Fender standard was from when they used Heavey Formvar 42AWG wire with ~2x the insulation thickness of what you are using. The resulting taller/thinner coil in the same bobbin space is probably why people think thinner insulation wire produces more highs. Again, closer to a 1cm coil height should compensate for that. Just make sure to take the height from the bottom. The poles will stick out the bottom a bit, but c'est la vie. It might be helpful to tape nails to each side of the protruding poles with 1 0r 2 directly on the bottom of the poles. Maybe put some kind of tape over the poles first? P.S. You might be able to use these threaded FeCrCo poles with plastic bobbins www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/misc-hardware/threaded-rod-pickup-magnet-2-m5x-8-x-63-length-set-of-6/ You can adjust them to taste. They don't reduce the highs as much Steel screws. In that Fe (Iron) is in the formula, they likely have higher permeability than AlNiCo -- they should produce more lows. Maybe you can cut standard plastic bobbins to the desired height and then drill out and glue the bottom piece back on the open cylinders? Sounds like a project. |
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Post by psiloguitarensis on Jan 1, 2022 16:26:34 GMT -5
i went back and saw you did say something about that. since wire coating differences are in general considered not hearable that poly wire seems just fine and quite a bit more affordable. so i will use 1cm inside area for the coil to be winded as a solid working reference. 1/2 does seem quite a bit much for what i want. if 1/2 was standard for 42awg double thick coated wire then .500 * .89 * .89 comes out to 1.005 cm so thats where im starting. do the pole piece have to be set lengths beyond bottom of bobbin? at top i noted 1/10th inch and then noted a few staggers based that off few specs i found. in general i noted shorter poles being no smaller then .630 and saw some as high as .710 so my wonder is how much does the poles effect past bottom of bobbin? what if poles stopped quite a bit shorter and then on top of bobbin either 1/10th flat or stagger based on radius of fretboard for my case 9.5". so this i will experiment with as well. does it help shape the tone?
does the size of the mag field beyond the coil in one direction shaping tone that much. though im wondering if i emailed that scott feller if he would be willing to answer a few question if hes able to touch on the subject.
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 1, 2022 19:14:02 GMT -5
i went back and saw you did say something about that. since wire coating differences are in general considered not hearable that poly wire seems just fine and quite a bit more affordable. so i will use 1cm inside area for the coil to be winded as a solid working reference. 1/2 does seem quite a bit much for what i want. if 1/2 was standard for 42awg double thick coated wire then .500 * .89 * .89 comes out to 1.005 cm so thats where im starting. do the pole piece have to be set lengths beyond bottom of bobbin? at top i noted 1/10th inch and then noted a few staggers based that off few specs i found. in general i noted shorter poles being no smaller then .630 and saw some as high as .710 so my wonder is how much does the poles effect past bottom of bobbin? what if poles stopped quite a bit shorter and then on top of bobbin either 1/10th flat or stagger based on radius of fretboard for my case 9.5". so this i will experiment with as well. does it help shape the tone?
does the size of the mag field beyond the coil in one direction shaping tone that much. though im wondering if i emailed that scott feller if he would be willing to answer a few question if hes able to touch on the subject. I don't see how much the poles sticking out the bottom would affect the sound, but they need be a bit above the coil so any stray flux lines entering the coil edges don't interfere with the flux lines from the vibrating strings. There may possibly be some tonal effect if the poles don't extend at least to the bottom of the coil, but that won't be an issue with a 1cm or shorter coil height and even the shortest 0.63" poles. |
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Post by psiloguitarensis on Jan 2, 2022 14:53:16 GMT -5
that is how i felt. Cant see it making a difference thats drastic or hearable unless coil was closer to bottom of poles sitting flush with pickguard with poles sticking out top quite a bit but i fear that would really weaken signal but also change tone at high mid range to upper range so much in a manner tone would be so distorted and run together it would be unbearable to hear. I imagine a small coke bottle with the guitar and amp inside and every inference possible effecting it lol. this i dont know but will glad experiment with that to see effects of tone .
my entire objective with this pickup project is to learn which magnets, coil wind count, coil height, wire that will give me the best quack tones. i know it easier to buy pickups and one day id like to buy a set to say i have lol but i want to enjoy the feeling of completion when i get to play that set for the first time. maybe if i build a nice test jig i could make a few extras and share with folks who want to partake in the same path as i and experiment with coils to physically learn.
alot of the technicals go over my head but i know if i make a pickup with spec A @ 42awg then wind spec A with 43 and 44 awg to hear the differences because paper and symbols wont give me what i need.
ill take spec A information and change coil height in increments of 1/32 to hear differences. with information from spec a, i will move to changing magnets in usable pickup spec combos and repeat and repeat and repeat until i have a vast collections of information with magnets, coil height and wire sizing. take all of them pickups and find what ones i like best and keep to play and like the rest go into a datasheet of information i can share freely as im able as thats my hope.
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 3, 2022 3:33:13 GMT -5
that is how i felt. Cant see it making a difference thats drastic or hearable unless coil was closer to bottom of poles sitting flush with pickguard with poles sticking out top quite a bit but i fear that would really weaken signal but also change tone at high mid range to upper range so much in a manner tone would be so distorted and run together it would be unbearable to hear. I imagine a small coke bottle with the guitar and amp inside and every inference possible effecting it lol. this i dont know but will glad experiment with that to see effects of tone . my entire objective with this pickup project is to learn which magnets, coil wind count, coil height, wire that will give me the best quack tones. i know it easier to buy pickups and one day id like to buy a set to say i have lol but i want to enjoy the feeling of completion when i get to play that set for the first time. maybe if i build a nice test jig i could make a few extras and share with folks who want to partake in the same path as i and experiment with coils to physically learn. alot of the technicals go over my head but i know if i make a pickup with spec A @ 42awg then wind spec A with 43 and 44 awg to hear the differences because paper and symbols wont give me what i need. ill take spec A information and change coil height in increments of 1/32 to hear differences. with information from spec a, i will move to changing magnets in usable pickup spec combos and repeat and repeat and repeat until i have a vast collections of information with magnets, coil height and wire sizing. take all of them pickups and find what ones i like best and keep to play and like the rest go into a datasheet of information i can share freely as im able as thats my hope. A taller/thinner coil or poles sticking up more out of a shorter coil should essentially achieve the same thing. It doesn't change the tone, but the note timber. The higher harmonics become more pronounced for each note. That can sound particularly nasty when combined with high Gauss poles. For that reason, I would not even use A5 poles, but lower Gauss poles (preferably higher permeability) and use pole height to adjust note timber for each string. Some players don't want poles sticking up at all because they hit them with the pick. I learned not to pick right over the pickups. You should find that smaller pole height adjustments make more of a note timber difference with shorter thinner wire coils. |
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