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Post by pyrroz on Dec 16, 2021 14:32:27 GMT -5
this is my first amp since 1991...
Any opinions? |
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Post by newey on Dec 16, 2021 21:11:38 GMT -5
Had never seen nor heard of one until you posted the link. It looks like it has some cool features, I like that the amp has an onboard charging dock for the wireless transmitter.
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 17, 2021 9:39:48 GMT -5
Had never seen nor heard of one until you posted the link. It looks like it has some cool features, I like that the amp has an onboard charging dock for the wireless transmitter.
thank you newey! plus it works as a bluetooth speaker! ready for party!! I never had a decent amp in my life, the one I have (and rarely play) is the crate40XL a dinosaur from the 80s. I guess the boss (I kinda trust boss because of me-25 which I like and also the legendary metal distortion) will be better!
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Post by newey on Dec 17, 2021 10:05:34 GMT -5
Well, report back on how it sounds. Despite the claims the manufacturers make, I'm always skeptical of things with small speakers.
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 17, 2021 16:44:29 GMT -5
Had never seen nor heard of one until you posted the link. It looks like it has some cool features, I like that the amp has an onboard charging dock for the wireless transmitter. thank you newey! plus it works as a bluetooth speaker! ready for party!! I never had a decent amp in my life, the one I have (and rarely play) is the crate40XL a dinosaur from the 80s. I guess the boss (I kinda trust boss because of me-25 which I like and also the legendary metal distortion) will be better!
Katanas sound great. Many users don't seem to get that the Master Volume has to be up a good bit to get some amp section compression/distortion. I assume it has the three speaker response options in software as with the other models. Someone said they can't get good Fendery clean tones, but that could be the stock speakers. Maybe having a few different types of extension speakers would solve that? Otherwise, one full/clear-sounding speaker might cover everything, and the speaker response options can be used per preset for the desired result. The Weber 'California' with the paper dome & surround would be a good affordable choice if you don't drive the amp section too hard. The '12F150B' with at least "moderate" doping would be good if you prefer a ribbed cone. Both are tight, full, clear speakers with excellent high-end extension that can cover overdrive and clean tones well. The 12F150B is like a ceramic-powered Celestion Gold. The 50W version will have stronger bass. The WGS 'Retro 30' is a 75W version of the same speaker without the options, but they don't charge for shipping inside the US. I lean towards the bass depth and high-end character of the Weber California, but it's just my preference. I like the '1230-55' more than either of those, but it is more classically British. Not sure how Fendery it can be. Keep in mind that the latency of the wireless systems to and from the amp will add up. It might add ~10ms or so. That's like being 10' from the speaker. I'd plug into at least one of those things directly. |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 18, 2021 3:23:58 GMT -5
thank you newey! plus it works as a bluetooth speaker! ready for party!! I never had a decent amp in my life, the one I have (and rarely play) is the crate40XL a dinosaur from the 80s. I guess the boss (I kinda trust boss because of me-25 which I like and also the legendary metal distortion) will be better!
Katanas sound great. Many users don't seem to get that the Master Volume has to be up a good bit to get some amp section compression/distortion. I assume it has the three speaker response options in software as with the other models. Someone said they can't get good Fendery clean tones, but that could be the stock speakers. Maybe having a few different types of extension speakers would solve that? Otherwise, one full/clear-sounding speaker might cover everything, and the speaker response options can be used per preset for the desired result. The Weber 'California' with the paper dome & surround would be a good affordable choice if you don't drive the amp section too hard. The '12F150B' with at least "moderate" doping would be good if you prefer a ribbed cone. Both are tight, full, clear speakers with excellent high-end extension that can cover overdrive and clean tones well. The 12F150B is like a ceramic-powered Celestion Gold. The 50W version will have stronger bass. The WGS 'Retro 30' is a 75W version of the same speaker without the options, but they don't charge for shipping inside the US. I lean towards the bass depth and high-end character of the Weber California, but it's just my preference. I like the '1230-55' more than either of those, but it is more classically British. Not sure how Fendery it can be. Keep in mind that the latency of the wireless systems to and from the amp will add up. It might add ~10ms or so. That's like being 10' from the speaker. I'd plug into at least one of those things directly.
thanks, excuse my noobiness are you talking about impulse response simulation or real speakers? I assume the latter... Hmm basically I play metal (the modern type post-2000) but also anything else. I like dire straits but not too crazy with clean tones!
one thing of concern is that this technology is 3 years old... maybe I jumped too late to the party?
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 18, 2021 3:46:42 GMT -5
Katanas sound great. Many users don't seem to get that the Master Volume has to be up a good bit to get some amp section compression/distortion. I assume it has the three speaker response options in software as with the other models. Someone said they can't get good Fendery clean tones, but that could be the stock speakers. Maybe having a few different types of extension speakers would solve that? Otherwise, one full/clear-sounding speaker might cover everything, and the speaker response options can be used per preset for the desired result. The Weber 'California' with the paper dome & surround would be a good affordable choice if you don't drive the amp section too hard. The '12F150B' with at least "moderate" doping would be good if you prefer a ribbed cone. Both are tight, full, clear speakers with excellent high-end extension that can cover overdrive and clean tones well. The 12F150B is like a ceramic-powered Celestion Gold. The 50W version will have stronger bass. The WGS 'Retro 30' is a 75W version of the same speaker without the options, but they don't charge for shipping inside the US. I lean towards the bass depth and high-end character of the Weber California, but it's just my preference. I like the '1230-55' more than either of those, but it is more classically British. Not sure how Fendery it can be. Keep in mind that the latency of the wireless systems to and from the amp will add up. It might add ~10ms or so. That's like being 10' from the speaker. I'd plug into at least one of those things directly. thanks, excuse my noobiness are you talking about impulse response simulation or real speakers? I assume the latter... Hmm basically I play metal (the modern type post-2000) but also anything else. I like dire straits but not too crazy with clean tones! one thing of concern is that this technology is 3 years old... maybe I jumped too late to the party?
I speak of real speakers, if you want to hook up an external cab. You'd need an IR device to load IR's. I don't think any of the Katanas have a built-in IR loader, but it's not outdated tech because all the amp emulation is done with analog components. I assume you can dial in Metal sounds. The Retro 30 would likely be the best modern Metal speaker of those I mentioned. I'd find a cheap closed-back cab for it somewhere. You won't need a guitar speaker If the Bluetooth signal has guitar speaker emulation. |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 18, 2021 7:34:35 GMT -5
thanks, excuse my noobiness are you talking about impulse response simulation or real speakers? I assume the latter... Hmm basically I play metal (the modern type post-2000) but also anything else. I like dire straits but not too crazy with clean tones! one thing of concern is that this technology is 3 years old... maybe I jumped too late to the party?
I speak of real speakers, if you want to hook up an external cab. You'd need an IR device to load IR's. I don't think any of the Katanas have a built-in IR loader, but it's not outdated tech because all the amp emulation is done with analog components. I assume you can dial in Metal sounds. The Retro 30 would likely be the best modern Metal speaker of those I mentioned. I'd find a cheap closed-back cab for it somewhere. You won't need a guitar speaker If the Bluetooth signal has guitar speaker emulation.
thanks let me get my hands on the basics and I'll ask questions as I progress!
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 18, 2021 23:14:43 GMT -5
I speak of real speakers, if you want to hook up an external cab. You'd need an IR device to load IR's. I don't think any of the Katanas have a built-in IR loader, but it's not outdated tech because all the amp emulation is done with analog components. I assume you can dial in Metal sounds. The Retro 30 would likely be the best modern Metal speaker of those I mentioned. I'd find a cheap closed-back cab for it somewhere. You won't need a guitar speaker If the Bluetooth signal has guitar speaker emulation. thanks let me get my hands on the basics and I'll ask questions as I progress!
Sure,man. I' ll just clear up a few things. It looks like it only acts as a BT receiver, useful for connecting a mobile phone or portable music player to, but you can plug into large full range powered speakers from the speaker emulated output if you want more bass. Again, I assume there are speaker response options in software to assign per preset, but I guess you won't know until you use the software. I noticed in the block diagram that the stereo line input is b4 the master volume. Perhaps that means the amp/speaker interaction emulation effect is done b4 the Master, possibly digitally, so turning it down does not change the response characteristics? I think it works differently on the older larger Katanas. Otherwise there would be no point to the variable output power switch. |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 19, 2021 4:09:30 GMT -5
hm I can see no variable power switch : |
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 19, 2021 4:27:54 GMT -5
hm I can see no variable power switch : The larger Katanas have such a power switch. The newer "Mk II" Katana models also have more-aggressive 2ndary preamp voicings that could be better for Metal styles, but either of the speaker response options might cover that well enough. |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 28, 2021 9:43:25 GMT -5
Hi I just got it. Sounds ok as a BT speaker, good for jamming, it does ok lead tones for clean, or hard rock, but the sounds for metal suck. I dont like it. I am wondering, how can I get ok metalica tones from the speakers (via BT) but not good riff tones? Distorted tones sound same quality as my old crate amp.. garbage ... I used to have divine tones via boss me-25, why can't this one deliver ?
It also seems the noise cancelling is killing any sustain ...
HELP!!
EDIT: just checked, mine is on firmware version : 1.01 , the newest being 1.20 (there is 1.10 as well). The only windows PC in the house belongs to my D, who has ... covid right now  |
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 28, 2021 19:17:39 GMT -5
Hi I just got it. Sounds ok as a BT speaker, good for jamming, it does ok lead tones for clean, or hard rock, but the sounds for metal suck. I dont like it. I am wondering, how can I get ok metalica tones from the speakers (via BT) but not good riff tones? Distorted tones sound same quality as my old crate amp.. garbage ... I used to have divine tones via boss me-25, why can't this one deliver ?
It also seems the noise cancelling is killing any sustain ... HELP!! EDIT: just checked, mine is on firmware version : 1.01 , the newest being 1.20 (there is 1.10 as well). The only windows PC in the house belongs to my D, who has ... covid right now Sorry to hear about your D (Dad?). Hope he is OK. AFAIK, it's only a BT receiver, intended to receive a signal from some other BT device. I'm not a metal guy, but you might be able to get more metalish sounds via tweaking the software. If you can get by with only 10w, which is actually pretty loud unless you are in a room with a drummer. Yamaha makes the metal-oriented 10w 'THR10X' that might do more of what you want. It's digital modeling, but you might like it. Here's one used: www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Yamaha/THR10X-10W-Extreme-High-Gain-Modeling-Guitar-Combo-Amp-117455653.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=CjwKCAiAiKuOBhBQEiwAId_sKxz6Q7MaMHtInQY1_p43VeZkiFJfsGbeEmlvND1aK7WsWMw9-jZRzxoCrR4QAvD_BwEYou could plug that into some large powered monitors, or a cheap class D amp and some decent used stereo speakers. You might consider returning the Katana. I don't think it's at all metal-oriented. The best for the money right now is probably the ~$500 Line 6 'Pod Go' (or the ~$600 wireless version). They've worked out the digital aliasing in a recent update so high gain sounds are alias-free, and it is frequently updated. There are so many amps and effects available I can't imagine you wouldn't like it. The amp models have multiple amp section response parameters. That's a big plus. Keep in mind: the amp model "Master" volume has to be up at least halfway to hear amp section dynamics -- surprising how many users don't get that. Many also don't bother learning how the amp response parameters affect the sound. They are interactive, so they must be understood to get the desired results. You would need external powered speakers or headphones with that unit. Something with enough oomph might be another ~$200 or so a pair. The cheap class D amp with passive speakers option is good because you can replace either component if something breaks. You may just need some RCA cables and two female RCA to male 1/4" adapters for that. Just be careful with the USB and DC power ports. PCB-mounted ports usually can't be replaced. |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 29, 2021 13:17:45 GMT -5
As days pass by I spend hours with the unit at the expense of my work since I am quarantine due to my daughter (D) who got covid-19, albeit double vaxxed. Anyways the girl is singing in her room no worries I bet this is the omikron version. The more I play with it and the app, the more I like it. It is not as versatile as the boss me-25 IMHO, it has limited control panel, the app does most of the work, but the fact that I can control this via the app and also act as a speaker is good!
I dont play only metal, I also play old rock, old metal, when I mean modern metal I mean the scooped sound of pantera or metallica , or numetal kind of stuff.
I bought it from Germany musicstore a division of dv247. It took days to come.. I dont know what to do..
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 29, 2021 13:25:32 GMT -5
pod go is floorboard with no speakers.
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 29, 2021 14:58:37 GMT -5
pod go is floorboard with no speakers. Yes, that's why I said you'd need external speakers. You could still get one or two 12" guitar speakers of the type I suggested for your Katana, but that would be at least $200~$400 with cabs. It might somewhat solve the issue of the lack of edge you desire, but I can't say. That's the best I can do. Glad your daughter is OK. My nephew-in-law has it. He's OK too. |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 30, 2021 15:48:02 GMT -5
Today I spent several hours with the headphones, and the sounds are amazing. I make sounds dead easy, I can nail a decent metal tone in no time. The android app is bad and buggy, to save (wrongly) a patch from my panel, it takes going via mars. 1/10 stars for the librarian .. I can not understand, in boss me-25 I could save my own patches easily ... what happens to the programmers ... year after year situation growing worse.
The question is, ok and so it does its job, it is ... I would say it is useful, with headphones ... why does it sound so poor and crappy with its speakers?
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Post by newey on Dec 30, 2021 22:16:16 GMT -5
why does it sound so poor and crappy with its speakers? I think I said something about that earlier. With all the talk about Bluetooth, apps, etc, it wasn't clear to me if this had a regular Speaker Out jack or not. But, I'm sorry, you can have all the "emulations" you want, but there's no substitute for the actual excursion of a good-sized speaker cone. |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 31, 2021 8:31:22 GMT -5
with headphones .. it slays!!! maybe I'll add some better power speakers as gckelloch suggested ! |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 31, 2021 8:39:21 GMT -5
Hey gckelloch , some day I'll need advice on the external speakers!! I am a totally total noob, albeit 53 yrs old, the last 20 years I was playing with transistor amps and emulated amps (Boss me-25) with headphones. California? Retro 30? I have no clue about speakers! Passive speaker? How many Ohms? Power speakers ?
THANK YOU!!
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 31, 2021 13:32:07 GMT -5
Hey gckelloch , some day I'll need advice on the external speakers!! I am a totally total noob, albeit 53 yrs old, the last 20 years I was playing with transistor amps and emulated amps (Boss me-25) with headphones. California? Retro 30? I have no clue about speakers! Passive speaker? How many Ohms? Power speakers ?
THANK YOU!!
I'd like to wrap this up, so I'll just say it doesn't look like the Katana Air has outputs for passive speakers. You can use a flexible 1/8" to RCA or 1/4" splitter to connect the headphone put to powered speakers. There are so many options there. A cheap class D amp and some used passive two-way speakers would be the cheapest. I like my JBL 305P monitors. Those are ~$300/pair. At 80W each they should be loud enough. They have bass to below the guitar range. You might first try the ~$100 powered 5.1 system I got for our living room TV. It sounds surprisingly good and loud. Bass is more consistent coming from one source, and you can place the subwoofer where it sounds best from where you are playing. I'll post a link. You'll just need the adapter and RCA cable I memtioned. |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 31, 2021 14:06:50 GMT -5
I think this guy connects to guitar cabinet ?
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Post by newey on Dec 31, 2021 16:07:45 GMT -5
I think this guy connects to guitar cabinet ? Well, yes- did you watch the video? I watched this, waiting for him to mention speaker impedance at some point. He does so near the end, and he verifies that the Katana Air has 2 8Ω internal speakers. And in his demonstration, he connects to 2 8Ω cabs, which is fine. But then he goes on to say, well, you can use 2 4Ω cabs, or 16Ω, just don't use 2 cabs with differing impedances. If it were me, I'd be much more careful than that. Solid state amps are much more forgiving of impedance mismatches than tube amps are, but they may not be universally so forgiving. If I were to do this mod, I would use only 8Ω cabs to be safe, and I'd always use 2 at a time. 2 4Ω cabs would be louder, but I'd worry about the long-term implications for the amp circuit. You could probably get away with doing so, but if it were me, I wouldn't risk it. Remember that this is AC we're speaking about, and impedance is dependent upon the frequency. So, when a cabinet says it's "4Ω", that's just an average value. And, you don't know what the lower limit of what this amp circuit will handle. If you plug into only one jack, the internal speaker on the other channel is still operating. That's not an impedance problem if both are 8Ω, but I wouldn't think you'd want to hear one channel through a cab and the other through the internal speaker. Note that he uses a switched jack for each channel. There is probably a way to use a double-switched jack to disconnect both channels at once, with both channels then connected via the cable's plug to a 16Ω cab. Just thinking out loud here, but that would potentially allow for just a single speaker cab with both channels feeding it. |
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 31, 2021 16:09:39 GMT -5
I think this guy connects to guitar cabinet ?
You can go that route and spend ~$400 or more on two good guitar speakers and cabs, but here's my last suggestion on this topic: www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=36573Silk-dome tweeters have a sweet high-end character. They have reliable solid-state class AB amps, and are likely flat to at least 80Hz (45Hz is the -10dB point), and should be loud enough if you don't need butt-kicking bass, or just add one of their powered subwoofers. I'd get this one because the closed cab design gives a flatter response, and it should have enough power to match the satellite speakers: www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=36673I'd set the crossover freq to as high as possible for tighter bass, but bass becomes directional to the ear at about 150Hz. You'll need another set of long RCA cables to go to the powered satelite speakers. Average-sized rooms can have a ~6dB peak in ~100Hz range and up to -20dB cancelations at some spots. A good way to find the best subwoofer spot in a room is to place it where you will play/listen from and crawl around with some music playing through it until the bass sounds the most balanced, and then place the subwoofer there. OK, so that's my last post on this topic. Best of luck. |
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Post by pyrroz on Dec 31, 2021 16:28:27 GMT -5
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 2, 2022 5:48:34 GMT -5
I am returning this, I guess this will be my last message in this thread as well.
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Post by solderburn on Jan 2, 2022 18:01:07 GMT -5
I am returning this, I guess this will be my last message in this thread as well. May i ask; why are you returning it? |
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 3, 2022 4:38:23 GMT -5
I am returning this, I guess this will be my last message in this thread as well. May i ask; why are you returning it?
Hi, because the tones are subpar. I have the boss me-25 which I had bought new in 2010 about 300 EUR IIRC and this rocks. What I mean: 10 amps simulation ranging from clean, crunch, (some I dont remember), marshal vintage, marshal modern, 5150, r-fier (Rectifier), and an genuine Ultra Metal. All of them usable, from very useful to perfect. The gain on each of them is realistic and good sounding. One has to play a little until he/she nails his/her tone. You want EVH tone? You just select 5150 with 95% gain, all other knobs left to 50%. You want Crazy Train tone? You select R-fier at 85% gain , all other knobs left to 50%. You want nu-metal, perfect scooped tone? You select Ultra metal at 70% gain , all other knobs left to 50%.
No extra distortion (and the box has TONS of them), no extra tweaking.
With the katana air, it was a fight even for the basics. I finally nailed some thrash tone (think Exodus Bonded by blood) but it was done via.... mars. The katana air has 5 amps, acoustic, clean, crunch, lead and "brown". The brown went unused, it sucked no matter what. Little use for lead. The way I managed to get the Exodus tone was via: Crunch Channel with gain at about 30%, Overdrive again at 30%, Noise Gate to zero, EQ with boosting lows and highs and taming the mids. And this ONLY with headphones. The built-in speakers just sounded absolutely awful.
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 4, 2022 21:49:21 GMT -5
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 5, 2022 2:10:06 GMT -5
Welcome back gckelloch , I am not a venture player, just an mid-age guy who wanted an amp, other than the Crate. Here is the user manual of me-25 : www.manualslib.com/manual/141829/Boss-Me-25.html It lists all the amp and effect modeling (10 amps). Regarding speaker modeling it does not have one. When I used to record, I used Ardourr's cab IR simulations, otherwise the guitar sounded dry and thin. Truth is, 99% of my playing is via headphones. I just needed a Christmas present that would bring me to par with 2020's.
At some point i did a Djent cover of Sia's unstoppable, and a guy from some forum took that and edited using multitracking. It sounded so good. I lost contact since I left this forum due to health reasons. Maybe I should spend my money in this area. Maybe amps are a thing of the past.
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