revo
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Post by revo on Apr 24, 2024 6:30:05 GMT -5
Hey, and greetings from Finland! 
Around last Christmas, I bought a Mustang body from eBay, as I got a good deal. I have bought a neck and pickups for the upcoming build, the next step is to do the wiring. The pickups I'm going to use are 2-conductor Lollar Firebird pickups, and the volume & tone pots are going to be 500K.
The unique wiring would go like this: - Slide Switch 1: Parallel/Series/Dark (As done by Yogi B in another thread: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/10036/mustang-wiring-slide-toggle-switches?page=2 ) - Slide Switch 2: Neck/Both/Bridge (Pickup selector switch) - Mini-Toggle Switch 1 (Between volume pot and tone pot): Treble Bleed/Off/Cocked Wah - Mini-Toggle Switch 2 (Between tone pot and output jack): Bass Cut Switch (As explained by JohnH in another thread: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7172/bass-cut-ptb-system ) - Push-Pull (Volume) Pot: Out-of-Phase when both pickups are selected
The control plate with the two mini-toggle switches would look like this:
At first I was planning to have PTB (Passive Treble and Bass Circuit) system for the Mustang, but as I'm unable to buy a blank Mustang control plate and there's not really space for another pot between tone pot and output jack, I'll try what the bass-cut switch can do. I think I can laser-cut a blank Mustang control plate in my university, but I'll try the PTB system at some point, maybe, who knows. As wiring with so many options is totally new for me, is there something that wouldn't work, or is worth taking into account? I'm not sure whether I have use for all the switches, but that's something I really want to try out. Richard D. James, aka Aphex Twin, is one of my role models musically, and he for sure has used every possible sound out there, which is what I would want from my guitar! In case there is someone who would have an idea how the wiring schematics would look like, I'd be more than happy to see the wiring diagram.
I still have to buy the electronic components, so in order for my wiring to work, I assume I'd need the following items:
- 1x On-On-On mini-toggle switch (For bass cut switch)
- 1x On-Off-On mini-toggle switch (For treble bleed/cocked wah)
- 2x Mustang slide switches (On-On-On?)
- 1x 500K pot, log. (for tone control)
- 1x 500K Push-Pull pot, lin. (for volume control) - A variety of resistors and caps, which I can get from local electronics store
Thank you for everyone in advance! |
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Post by unreg on Apr 24, 2024 16:42:33 GMT -5
The control plate with the two mini-toggle switches would look like this:
 … As wiring with so many options is totally new for me, is there something that wouldn't work, or is worth taking into account? I'm not sure whether I have use for all the switches, but that's something I really want to try out. Richard D. James, aka Aphex Twin, is one of my role models musically, and he for sure has used every possible sound out there, which is what I would want from my guitar! Hi revo! Welcome to GN2! I am NOT a guitar brain, but I bet Richard D. James owned/played more than 1 guitar. Physical limitations prevent 1 guitar from using every possible sound out there. Here is an example from Yogi B: I strongly suspect that this would also require more switch poles. Many more: two per each series/parallel toggle, plus another two for switching the middle (H)OoP — so eight in total. Thus making this part of the idea pretty unworkable, 8PDTs do exist but aren't likely to fit: push button variants being way too deep; and slide versions having roughly the same footprint as a 5-way selector switch (approx. 50mm × 10mm). I included your base plate pic because the mini toggles seem awfully close to your volume and tone knobs. Using the mini toggle switches while playing a song would be quite scary for me… the volume and/or tone might be changed too… but, that’s just my thought. And I’m definitely less skilled at guitar than you.  |
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Post by newey on Apr 24, 2024 19:47:56 GMT -5
revo- Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!Without putting pen to paper (primitive tech, to be sure, but that's just me) I can't say for sure - but I think what you propose is possible with the components you are describing. Actual work intrudes at the moment, so it would probably be awhile before I could work out a diagram. (SO, if someone wants to jump in . . .  ).
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revo
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Post by revo on Apr 28, 2024 9:45:55 GMT -5
unregThanks man, it's nice being here! I'm rather sure Richard D. James has that much different gear that I'll never be able to own, so I won't compete against him Having a budget for my projects while being a university student, I'll try to get everything out from my guitar(s) that's possible. I have an idea of making a mounting bracket for the mini-toggle switches, so the toggle heads would look pretty much alike how David Gilmour has mini-toggle switch in his Black Strat. So the switches won't be on the way of using volume and tone pots! Just an idea at this point though...
revo- Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!Without putting pen to paper (primitive tech, to be sure, but that's just me) I can't say for sure - but I think what you propose is possible with the components you are describing. Actual work intrudes at the moment, so it would probably be awhile before I could work out a diagram. (SO, if someone wants to jump in . . . ). Thank You, nice being here
I thank You already at this point, that you would be helping with the wiring
I ordered the parts I listed in the beginning of this thread, the parts should arrive in 2-3 days. Even though I would need some other parts, I can get them from my local electronics store, that's within one kilometer where I live
Thanks for the both answers guys!
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Post by sumgai on Apr 28, 2024 11:46:36 GMT -5
rev0, Hi, and  to The NutzHouse! I'm sorry to have to say, I see a potentially pretty big problem with one part of your intended design. The Firebird pup is a two wire jobbie, yes? Well, I've spent the last 20 minutes searching for more details on that, but so far.... nada. The potential problem is this: What we would call a 'two wire' pickup would have only that, two wires. One intended to the 'hot' lead, and the other usually referred to as the 'ground' lead. But the rub here is, Gibson in particular has for many years used a woven shield wrapped around a single wire, and installed it in sooooo many of their guitars. Other companies have followed their lead, because the shielding helps to reduce hum - always a good idea, reducing hum.  And because that woven shielding is perfectly capable of carrying a signal, (the 'ground' part), this has been labeled as a two-wire system for decades.  Well, there are many pickup makers out there that make a 'two wire plus shield' pickup, and sometimes they'll "forget" to make that distinction. Sadly, even Jason Lollar's own website does exactly that - fails to denote which way his Firebird pickup is wired: only one wire inside of the woven shield, or two of them inside. (The pictures clearly show a woven shield is present.) So for your desire to put the two pickups out-of-phase (OoP or oop, in NutsHouse-speak), you have a potential for introducing hum into your signal.... lots of hum. That will happen if you find only one wire inside of that woven shielding, because in order to reverse the phase, you need to take the 'ground' wire and switch it to the 'hot' side of the signal. Should you have two wires inside of that shield, then there'll be no problems at all, but like I said, nobody on the web seems to care enough to properly describe the wiring attributes of this particular pickup. Otherwise, all of your stated desires (your "wish list") are perfectly doable. Good luck with your build, and do post pictures (in The Gallery) and sound clips (either here or also in The Gallery). HTH sumgai |
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Post by unreg on Apr 28, 2024 20:17:36 GMT -5
Otherwise, all of your stated desires (your "wish list") are perfectly doable. Good luck with your build, and do post pictures (in The Gallery) and sound clips (either here or also in The Gallery). , he needs help with the wiring diagram… just a kind note. I thank You already at this point, that you would be helping with the wiring |
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revo
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Post by revo on May 4, 2024 9:47:41 GMT -5
rev0, Hi, and to The NutzHouse! I'm sorry to have to say, I see a potentially pretty big problem with one part of your intended design. The Firebird pup is a two wire jobbie, yes? Well, I've spent the last 20 minutes searching for more details on that, but so far.... nada. The potential problem is this: What we would call a 'two wire' pickup would have only that, two wires. One intended to the 'hot' lead, and the other usually referred to as the 'ground' lead. But the rub here is, Gibson in particular has for many years used a woven shield wrapped around a single wire, and installed it in sooooo many of their guitars. Other companies have followed their lead, because the shielding helps to reduce hum - always a good idea, reducing hum. And because that woven shielding is perfectly capable of carrying a signal, (the 'ground' part), this has been labeled as a two-wire system for decades. Well, there are many pickup makers out there that make a 'two wire plus shield' pickup, and sometimes they'll "forget" to make that distinction. Sadly, even Jason Lollar's own website does exactly that - fails to denote which way his Firebird pickup is wired: only one wire inside of the woven shield, or two of them inside. (The pictures clearly show a woven shield is present.) So for your desire to put the two pickups out-of-phase (OoP or oop, in NutsHouse-speak), you have a potential for introducing hum into your signal.... lots of hum. That will happen if you find only one wire inside of that woven shielding, because in order to reverse the phase, you need to take the 'ground' wire and switch it to the 'hot' side of the signal. Should you have two wires inside of that shield, then there'll be no problems at all, but like I said, nobody on the web seems to care enough to properly describe the wiring attributes of this particular pickup. Otherwise, all of your stated desires (your "wish list") are perfectly doable. Good luck with your build, and do post pictures (in The Gallery) and sound clips (either here or also in The Gallery). HTH sumgai
Thanks sumgai!
Unfortunately for my bad luck, the leads are vintage style, so the shielding is braided, no two wires inside of the shielding. 
How OoP would work, if I had third (middle, RWRP) pickup, that's 4-conductor? This is just an idea I've had, that I'd have a middle pickup, and a three-way toggle switch for operating that pickup. Neck & bridge pickups would still face this hum-OoP issue, but OoP between neck & middle pickups and middle & bridge pickups shouldn't have this issue, right? Lollar has mentioned on their website, that "All pickups I make and have ever made will be in phase with each other no matter what the design is or what year it was made unless they were made to match some other company's pickup per customer request which is unusual." So I see that the middle pickup would work the best when RWRP, but correct me if I'm wrong.
I saw online a sound-demo of Lace Sensor Silver pickup in middle position, and it sounded nicely warm, but not too beefy, for my ear This style pickup, but in Firebird-form, would be an interesting one...
Also, if JohnH who designed the circuit can't, could explain to me, how the bass-cut works differently when having on- on-on mini-switch, instead of on- off-on? Just like with first mini-toggle switch I designed to have, the middle position would be off (no effect), so does the signal just pass through on middle position with the bass-cut switch?
BUT, the parts I ordered have arrived! Still hoping to get some help (haha) with the wiring, but I'll try to manage something out by myself before any professional might help me
Thanks for the answers to everyone!
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Post by JohnH on May 4, 2024 20:11:36 GMT -5
Hi revoThis was my idea for the bass cut that you linked to:  It goes in the 'hot' signal path between tone pot and volume pot. The idea is, in the middle position, it connects straight through with no effect, and in the outer positions it provides two versions of bass cut. One is a moderate general bass cut and the other is focused on trying to get nearer to a single coil tone, which was an idea that I was exploring. It has to be on-on-on for this diagram, because if it was on-off-on, there would be no connection and no signal in the centre position. On-off-on switches are great for some things, but not for this specific idea. If you wanted just one bass-cut setting, you could use a simple two-position toggle. Personally, I find three-position mini-toggles to be just a bit too fiddly to use on a guitar. |
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to The NutzHouse! 
And because that woven shielding is perfectly capable of carrying a signal, (the 'ground' part), this has been labeled as a two-wire system for decades. 
