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Post by studiostriver on Apr 11, 2013 10:24:12 GMT -5
most probably your guitar i just fine. And in case you wanna shield it, the cost is ridiculous. Use some carbon foil as newey said or aluminum foil like i did. Also i have used conductive paint with success (i hope). So, chances are you will need more a trip to "INTEREX" rather a loan from "ADRIA banka",  Oh,ok..I`m taking notes for all you suggestion my bros... ;D I will do that when times come to change new pickups and make all these modifications... |
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farren
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Post by farren on Apr 11, 2013 10:46:36 GMT -5
studiostriver, I didn't realize a tech would be in the mix (probably because I skimmed the thread initially), so I apologize for the information overload. You'll want to make sure the tech checks continuity of the control cavity shielding so that he can properly shield it if it fails as it did with my HR. No idea if the 5-way is right for what you want, it just opens up the options a little. A 5-way superswitch is more versatile than the 6-way freeway. Unless they've change their routing since mine was built which I doubt, your control cavity is going to be a bit cramped. I can't say if the preamp would fit or not, but it'd be a good idea to measure first. It's really quite small (smallest of any of my guitars). You're right though, it is a beefy guitar. Just with a fairly small hole *cough* This is what mine looked like stock, which doesn't look so small till you realize those are mini-pots:  But your tech can worry about it, just measure for the preamp to be sure. As for EMGs, I'm sort of backwards on them. I adore the 85/707/808 for clean tones and wouldn't mind having them just for cleans, but can't stand any active I've heard overdriven. I play mostly progressive music, but get plenty of tightness and articulation from my guitars' Dimarzios, probably thanks to my infamously tight (some say to the point of flaw) amp. newey, that's precisely the problem, only one layer of paint. I've read all of Guitarnuts since but had to experience this problem first-hand when I was first upgrading my Schecter years ago. The faulty pickup cavity shielding was just an abundance of worry, clearly, as I'd read many times what you're saying. Good to have confirmation anyway. Just curious, do you generally agree that shielding pickup cavities hardly makes a difference in avoiding environmental noise on humbucker-only guitars? Particularly in guitars without pickguards that, rather than a flawed Faraday cage, can only have at best a sort of Faraday tray on the underside and half of the sides of the pickups, which seems of only situational worth to me. |
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Post by ashcatlt on Apr 11, 2013 17:41:21 GMT -5
One topic we haven't discussed (and a topic on which I'll need JohnH, ashcatlt, or "sum" body to help out) is whether switching the active preamp "on" may cause an audible "pop", and whether that could be minimized with an appropriate capacitor across that switch. There may be popping, but a capacitor big enough to eliminate it will take most of the signal with it. Largish resistors (1M-10M is common) at the input and output of the active circuit will likely be your best bet. There may already be some of these "pulldown" resistors in the circuit. |
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Post by newey on Apr 11, 2013 18:24:41 GMT -5
First of all, let me say that my digression into shielding issues was strictly a response to farren's question. I did not mean to imply that studiostriver needed to shield his 2 HBs. With HBs, any difference in noise level is likely to be minimal. In other words, the quieter things are to begin with, the less effect shielding can have.
As to farren's question above, you're right in the sense that any pickup, SC or HB, has to protrude outside of the shielding to do its job of sensing the strings. So, whether we call it a "flawed cage" or a "tray" is a matter of semantics; either way we have a hole, either a SC sized hole or a HB sized hole. I don't know that the lack of a pickguard really makes a whole lot of difference, either way, it's the pickup-sized hole that presents the issue.
Wrapping the pickup coils themselves has been tried here, as a solution to the dilemma, but wrapping them too closely or tightly will affect the magnetic field and potentially alter the tone, probably for the worse. If I recall correctly, years ago someone had a thread where they experimented with loosely wrapping coils, as a sort of compromise position. The person reported no loss of tone, IIRC, and some improvement in noise levels. That thread is probably too old to be searchable by now.
Farren, I hate to fall back on generalities to answer what you asked, but in general, shielding the cavity without shielding the pickups isn't likely to make a significant difference in noise- the odds that the pots, etc. pick up noise are small. The pickups are many times more likely to be the culprits.
As a second generality, imperfect shielding is generally better than none at all. Consider that Fender, for years, put a simple piece of foil on the undersides of their Strat pickguards, and didn't shield the cavities at all (Now, they use conductive paint on some models).
Even that piece helped some. That piece of foil is cheap for one guitar, but Fender makes a lot of Strats. They would have eliminated it years ago if it made no difference to the noise levels, and added the cost to their bottom line. . .
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farren
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Post by farren on Apr 11, 2013 20:34:47 GMT -5
I was actually referring to the control cavity as a flawed Faraday cage and the pickup cavities as the tray. Sort of a joke obviously, but the reason I consider the control cavity flawed is because the majority of people are not going to have only shielded wires entering the cavity with braid flared out to connect to the shielding, so the holes for the bridge ground and pickups will generally create donut-shaped holes in the cage. A totally impractical sort of "labyrinth" of routing like you find in many compact subwoofer enclosures ( this sort of thing) with shielded surfaces could I guess take care of any directional noise that would threaten to penetrate that hole in the shielding, or if the wiring tunnels are not straight but curve about, one could paint the length of them with carbon paint using a pipe cleaner or similar. Not at all necessary as I doubt it'd make any difference--only thinking of how to perfect the cage. But yeah, total diversion from the topic at hand, as I've done in another thread The lack of a pickguard might not make a practical difference either (in fact, the previous paragraph featured nothing practical  ) but it does decrease coverage a little, how much depending on the height of the bridge/fingerboard above the face of the guitar. I think you mean shielding the pickup cavities without shielding the pickups themselves, but perhaps you could clarify? You mention pots, so I'm not sure: do you instead mean shielding the pickup cavity OR the control cavity isn't likely to make a significant difference without shielding the pickups themselves? Would you still suggest shielding the control cavity on an humbucker-only guitar? Anyway, regarding imperfect shielding, the Schecter's control cavity shielding is likely to be totally ineffectual if it's anything like when they manufactured mine. While I've always shielded the control cavities of all of my guitars, I'll defer to you on if this is a worthwhile pursuit or not. If it is worthwhile, studiostriver's tech is likely in for a control cavity shielding job at least. |
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Post by newey on Apr 11, 2013 21:30:40 GMT -5
My bad- omission of the word "control" before "cavity"- I meant shielding the control cavity alone won't mean much (if anything).
I would not bother to shield the control cavity alone on a HB pickup guitar, that was my point (albeit a poorly-articulated point, apparently . . .). If you're not going to tackle the major transmitters of noise- the pickups themselves- why bother?
As to the question of holes in the Faraday cage, bear in mind that the primary component of the noise signal is hum from the household mains current, at 60Hz, which is a fairly long wavelength. Small holes in the cage won't be an issue if the noise signal is at a longer wavelength.
As has been mentioned here before, Faraday's original experiments used a wire mesh, not a solid sheet of metal, as the shield. That's why it was called a "cage" and not a "box".
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farren
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Post by farren on Apr 11, 2013 21:35:28 GMT -5
... And that is why I defer.
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Post by studiostriver on Apr 12, 2013 7:40:51 GMT -5
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Post by b4nj0 on Apr 12, 2013 8:58:27 GMT -5
Newey is on the button (as usual)
The loss through holes only becomes significant as the size of a hole approaches a quarter wavelength at the troublesome frequency (and that would need to be a very big hole indeed at mains hum frequency) A little bit like an open waveguide (at the other end of the frequency spectrum) Well, that's what was inculcated into me when doing the "ham" exams.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 12:17:41 GMT -5
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Post by studiostriver on Apr 13, 2013 5:17:01 GMT -5
Thanks for pic..It looks I could somehow manage to put it with no problem,hellraiser`s cavitiy to me seems just a little more bigger.. The only problem know concerns me will this popping from chaning vol1 to vol2 be too much hearable noise when chaning the signal?  You know i planning to changing between them(active/passive) very often...  Cheers.  |
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Post by studiostriver on Apr 13, 2013 16:24:07 GMT -5
If it make sound like switching to another pickups or similiar it is great but if it too loud clipping when changing volumes,Im afraid I will must say goodbay to SD Preamp,and make modification only with Bare Knuckle pickups....
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Post by newey on Apr 13, 2013 22:03:32 GMT -5
ss-
ash speculated that the preamp might already have the necessary resistor(s). However, to me it looks like the factory install for this assumes that the pre is always "on", if so no resistors would be needed since it wouldn't be switched in/out.
I wouldn't ditch the pre just yet, I think we can figure out how to minimize any pop. As ash suggested, a resistor is needed.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2013 0:46:36 GMT -5
If it make sound like switching to another pickups or similiar it is great but if it too loud clipping when changing volumes,Im afraid I will must say goodbay to SD Preamp,and make modification only with Bare Knuckle pickups.... man, at last attempt to prevent you for throwing away the EMGs, have you thought to just cut the battery to the EMGs? You will notice a significant drop in volume, and the lack of the EMG pre-amp. In other words you will have the raw EMG "passive" sound .... "unplugged" Ok, no out of phase here (and who wants it anyway, most of us, run amok as soon as they discover they have wired two pups out of phase) Man, save your money and play the guitar as it is. Most of the alteration of the sound comes from amp/effects anyway. I was recording through (own configured) linux audio tool-chain - Rackarrack, JACK, with both an old Aria strat with Dimarzio fast track 2/1, and a home brewed scalloped partscaster with Dimarzio HS-3 in the bridge (malmsteen). Well i could do the nu-metal drop tune sound with the HS-3, and with 9s strings !!! as good as with the Aria and an ibanez arz800 i have with EMG81/60 !! Well not the most usual way to record but you get the point. Minus 2-3 sounds that ONLY SingleCoil STRAT guitars (or strat-wannabe guitars) can do, and minus 1-2 sounds that only HumBucker guitars can do, all the rest are achievable easily via EQ, Amp, effects. (always IMHO). Bareknuckles will give some thing, will take something away, but still no quack! And since you talk about recording, bear in mind that in recording you have ALL the time to play with amp/effects settings, no rush to switch between modes instantly, eliminate noises, etc... A recording can even last days. Keep the good tracks, scrap some others, mix them... Why not keep your guitar as is, and build a new one at your specs (and put all the switches, bareknuckles, and BMP1s of the world)? You could use both then. Of course guys (Ash, Newey, John) here can do miracles but IMHO always strat will be the most versatile instrument by design. If you go the route you have in mind with the bareknuckles + all switches, you will ruin a beautiful stock guitar (especially if new holes are drilled), decrease its resale value, get into trouble with techs who most probably see those things first time in their life, in short you will get into trouble and still NOT have the "quack" strat 2-4 positions!!! I mean personally i would not do it. To je sve ja mogu da ti kazem brate. |
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Post by studiostriver on Apr 14, 2013 4:40:33 GMT -5
If it make sound like switching to another pickups or similiar it is great but if it too loud clipping when changing volumes,Im afraid I will must say goodbay to SD Preamp,and make modification only with Bare Knuckle pickups.... man, at last attempt to prevent you for throwing away the EMGs, have you thought to just cut the battery to the EMGs? You will notice a significant drop in volume, and the lack of the EMG pre-amp. In other words you will have the raw EMG "passive" sound .... "unplugged" Ok, no out of phase here (and who wants it anyway, most of us, run amok as soon as they discover they have wired two pups out of phase) Man, save your money and play the guitar as it is. Most of the alteration of the sound comes from amp/effects anyway. I was recording through (own configured) linux audio tool-chain - Rackarrack, JACK, with both an old Aria strat with Dimarzio fast track 2/1, and a home brewed scalloped partscaster with Dimarzio HS-3 in the bridge (malmsteen). Well i could do the nu-metal drop tune sound with the HS-3, and with 9s strings !!! as good as with the Aria and an ibanez arz800 i have with EMG81/60 !! Well not the most usual way to record but you get the point. Minus 2-3 sounds that ONLY SingleCoil STRAT guitars (or strat-wannabe guitars) can do, and minus 1-2 sounds that only HumBucker guitars can do, all the rest are achievable easily via EQ, Amp, effects. (always IMHO). Bareknuckles will give some thing, will take something away, but still no quack! And since you talk about recording, bear in mind that in recording you have ALL the time to play with amp/effects settings, no rush to switch between modes instantly, eliminate noises, etc... A recording can even last days. Keep the good tracks, scrap some others, mix them... Why not keep your guitar as is, and build a new one at your specs (and put all the switches, bareknuckles, and BMP1s of the world)? You could use both then. Of course guys (Ash, Newey, John) here can do miracles but IMHO always strat will be the most versatile instrument by design. If you go the route you have in mind with the bareknuckles + all switches, you will ruin a beautiful stock guitar (especially if new holes are drilled), decrease its resale value, get into trouble with techs who most probably see those things first time in their life, in short you will get into trouble and still NOT have the "quack" strat 2-4 positions!!! I mean personally i would not do it. To je sve ja mogu da ti kazem brate. I understand your point very well.I have my own home recording studio so I`m familiar very well with sound of EMG`s,effects,different guitars etc..I use Line6 PODX3 Pro,and old Vintage amp Acoustic,with Korg TP-2 Preamp(also to add little tube warmth to emulations....Know back to topic. I need not just sound of passive pickups...Choise would be easy if I want that...I need more musical ones and also with different colour in sound between bridge and neck,I need more character. EMG`s bridge/neck whatever you play whatever you do they sound almost the same,just react differently,so I cant stand that same consinstency and steril sound... I like cleans very much,and like the raw meaty energy when riffing...All other factor I barelly can stand.. I have listened Bare Knuckles for a few days their demos,and from guys in forum who bought them...At the first hearing I almost sad,that is what I wanted.Every model is so musical,just choose what is best for you... My addition to sound is SD Blackouts preamp,when I want tightness and punch of active pickups... Second thing,I do not have more money to buy two good guitars! I do not want to buy cheap guitar..Cheap wood,cheap sound no matter what pickups you use... Third,I planning to use just this guitar(in years to come)for all my recording purposses..That would be my only electric guitar...I`m very happy with Hellraiser`s playabillity and it is built very well,and wood is pretty heavy and meaty..I just need better pickups who can bring the quallity of guitar little bit more...All changes I wanted is add little more variety how pickups behave in series,parallel/single coil...I have listened a few yt demos,here is one. I liked very much what I hear...Those things you can`t get with eq,believe me.I`m in music production almost 5 years. And finaly,phase in/out is always fascinating me,I`m a big lover of Brian May,and also have a lots melodies in music which demand a Queen vibe in it. That is the reason I want those changes.And I will not ruin the guitar,I`m not gonna want to sell it ever...I like to stick with one instrument...I have my father`s Vintage Tama Superstar with concert toms from 87...I never/ever though of playing any other drums in my life.. Sorry for my English,I can`t say this better.I hope you inderstand what I trying to say?Cheers. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2013 6:41:21 GMT -5
Well, if you are determined, then go for it! Obviously you have more experience with recording. I am just an amateur bed-room guitarist for most of my life, but i play the thing for over 30 years, hey i belong to the generation of Vlatko Stefanovski and Tocak Mihajlovic and Bijelo Dugme and Divle Jagode , you guys had a fantastic rockn'roll scene back in pre-90s. Now back to your case (i am contradict my self a couple of times but still get my point through): - EMGs sound sterile you say, and even if we put wire on a fence and an EMG close, it will sound the same. Ok, but how come and we have EMG guitars from 700EUR www.thomann.de/gr/ibanez_arz800tdr.htm to 6000 EUR www.thomann.de/gr/esp_esp_eclipse_custom_shop_stbk.htm which wear the same pickups? For me, EMG81 - EMG 60 sound differently in bridge - neck, and sound fantastic both clean and dirty (still no quack tho ) Good overall pup, covering a very wide range of sounds (minus the quack) - You like cleans you say. Cleans are a synonymous to the strat SC sound, and also to the quack legendary positions 2 & 4. IMHO, no need for any drama if you still do not have those sounds. - You say you dislike cheap guitars with cheap wood. You will be stunned how many beautiful sounds that may come out of cheap guitar, which is looked after correctly, upgraded correctly but most importantly *setup* correctly. Anyway good luck with any decision you make! And with your work. Keep us posted of any results! I hope it will have a heavy balkan influence into it! |
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Post by sumgai on Apr 14, 2013 10:30:59 GMT -5
Danger! Warning! Strongly worded opinions to follow!!Man, save your money and play the guitar as it is. But that's...... not nearly masochistic enough! Uh oh...... I don't think we're gonna be in Kansas for very much longer, Toto! 
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Post by studiostriver on Apr 14, 2013 10:46:44 GMT -5
Well, if you are determined, then go for it! Obviously you have more experience with recording. I am just an amateur bed-room guitarist for most of my life, but i play the thing for over 30 years, hey i belong to the generation of Vlatko Stefanovski and Tocak Mihajlovic and Bijelo Dugme and Divle Jagode , you guys had a fantastic rockn'roll scene back in pre-90s. We all chose what we wanna be..I sacrifice all my life so far and youth for my future studio...I could go drinking every night like all my friends,go to concerts,travel every summer to exotic places..I chose to live life of monarch spending almost all my time working online,giving guitar classes and sparing every cent on my dreams..I`m still on half way,but I know someday I will have it all...No pain no gain like they say.I`d had listened our bands as a kid,in 95% they are rip off of famous world bands in those time,so I`m spending my time on listening more Al Di Meola,John McLaughlin etc...But I`m more metalhead in a fact.Vlatko and Radomir are great guitarist but really never catch my ears nowdays. Now back to your case (i am contradict my self a couple of times but still get my point through): - EMGs sound sterile you say, and even if we put wire on a fence and an EMG close, it will sound the same. Ok, but how come and we have EMG guitars from 700EUR www.thomann.de/gr/ibanez_arz800tdr.htm to 6000 EUR www.thomann.de/gr/esp_esp_eclipse_custom_shop_stbk.htm which wear the same pickups? For me, EMG81 - EMG 60 sound differently in bridge - neck, and sound fantastic both clean and dirty (still no quack tho ) Good overall pup, covering a very wide range of sounds (minus the quack) I didn`t sad that EMG`s are bad,I sad that you put them on hence and on guitar 10000 euros they will still sound like EMG...IMHO They do not let sound of guitar in their sound if that makes sense what i talking?! :-/Still i think they are one of the best metal pickups out there,but if you wanna play mixture of different music like i want,and want more dynamic sound(record yourself,and take notice how EMG`s wave signal have too much compressed sound),and warmth and they response differently on your pick attack you can forget about them in my opnion...Many big guitarist using them,but that are mainly one genre band,they doing one thing tremendous.But for me I need something different. - You like cleans you say. Cleans are a synonymous to the strat SC sound, and also to the quack legendary positions 2 & 4. IMHO, no need for any drama if you still do not have those sounds. I came from different school...I like also Strat classic clean,but also like EMG cold clean like from 80/90thies thrash metal bands..It is alnico vs ceramic sound i guess... - You say you dislike cheap guitars with cheap wood. You will be stunned how many beautiful sounds that may come out of cheap guitar, which is looked after correctly, upgraded correctly but most importantly *setup* correctly. I played with so many bands as a kid and also played many cheap guitar myself,know after years of recording I can say it what I sad on previous post,again...Cheap wood,cheap sound...Simple as it is.Always lack of body,and that is what is essence of metal guitar sound...Maybe many for different genres cheap guitar will work,but for metal music you need heavy as hell wood.And somewhat like modern built,or vintage LesPaul... Strat is only good for oldschool heavy Iron Maiden stuff,or for Yngwie Malmsteen neoclassical shredding which I adore by the way..And doing fabulous job,but for all other metal genres it do not fit at all. Anyway good luck with any decision you make! And with your work. Keep us posted of any results! I hope it will have a heavy balkan influence into it! Well,thanks a lot. I`m not still 100% determined will I do this,I need to be sure will this work technically right...Will I have too much issue with changing from active to passive... And for last,hmmm I`m afraid I will dissapoint you with balkan influence..I`m in totally different music.In my opinion Balkan music is just result after 500 years of Turkish slavery in medieavel times,so I do not think it has anything to do with real tradition music of any people who live today there... I hope I did not offend you with any of my comments on your questions,I am sorry if i am..I live isolated life and sometimes I even forget to communicate and stay positive and polite with more social type people... |
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Post by studiostriver on Apr 14, 2013 10:52:30 GMT -5
Danger! Warning! Strongly worded opinions to follow!!Man, save your money and play the guitar as it is. But that's...... not nearly masochistic enough! Uh oh...... I don't think we're gonna be in Kansas for very much longer, Toto! Sorry but i can not find that printjunky have any comment so far on my post.Maybe I`m going blind but can`t find it.  Is that your opinion? Well,thanks for suggestions. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2013 11:35:49 GMT -5
Man, SG's post's two quotes are supposed to be read in sequence!!! forget the guys who wrote them and the context, thread, etc.... Just read them, its funny! Now, of course you do not offend me, covece! nema problema! Being a metalhead all my life and one of the oldest thrashers of the south of south of south of Europe (Crete : Krit) , you definitely come from my school (minus Brian may, Rush, Dream theater, i was never into progressive thing). The 2-4 positions are trademark sounds for the most popular Ibanez's contemporary (post-80s) clean sounds, i think JEM if am not mistaken, ("Is this love" - whitesnake). So its basically "quack" modernized. About heavy guitars (as in weight), let me tell you that Ibanez's basswood is one of the lightest woods. And Ibanez is the benchmark for metal, right? Some high-end strats are also ultra light. Ash can be very light, or heavier than alder. (ok i know strats are not metal you will say). Now about cheap guitars... Setup a MIM strat (or high end squire) correctly, fret dress it correctly, + nut, neck ideal slight back bow, + bridge, action, put a super distortion in the bridge and areas in middle neck and it will make lots of badly setup ibanez's, schechters, LTDs', LP studios, sound inferior. Cheap instruments have also cheap setups (if any). My daughter's baby strat (3/4) (80 EURo) has some problems, but i am sure i could make it sound 2 times better if i just spent an evening with this. Its not nuclear physics or anything abstract mathematics here. Its just wood stiff enuf to take the force of 45-50 Kgr. Sure precision matters a lot, quality of materials as well, and built quality, but in the end the tone-wood hype i think is dead and gone for quite some time now. You will find tons of evidence in here (and tones of evidence as well ) Now about the turkish slavery thing and balkan music. I am not so sure who ripped off who, the turkish or the natives? I don't think original turks had this music when they came from China. So it clearly is local. Do not confuse with turbo folk. How about CG/HR ? you can find similar traits there. Nothing turkish in particular. Find me a turkish song which sounds like "Zajdi Zajdi" which personally i consider a balkan masterpiece. You will find nothing. This is pure ancient slavic medieval music. Also, i do not consider Turkish times as slavery. It was a union, just like the EU today. There was peace for many years, and the life relaxed. I am not entirely buying this anti-turkish thing, even if my mom as a teacher had to tell the kids 24x7 how bad turks were. |
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Post by studiostriver on Apr 14, 2013 16:45:15 GMT -5
Man, SG's post's two quotes are supposed to be read in sequence!!! forget the guys who wrote them and the context, thread, etc.... Just read them, its funny! Oh,ok. Now, of course you do not offend me, covece! nema problema! Being a metalhead all my life and one of the oldest thrashers of the south of south of south of Europe (Crete : Krit) , you definitely come from my school (minus Brian may, Rush, Dream theater, i was never into progressive thing). The 2-4 positions are trademark sounds for the most popular Ibanez's contemporary (post-80s) clean sounds, i think JEM if am not mistaken, ("Is this love" - whitesnake). So its basically "quack" modernized. I do not like sound of Ibanez guitars at all.But you are right about clean sounds.To me true metal tone is like one that John Sykes had on Whitesnake`s 1987 album,meaty saturated sound.But that is just my opinion. About heavy guitars (as in weight), let me tell you that Ibanez's basswood is one of the lightest woods. And Ibanez is the benchmark for metal, right? Some high-end strats are also ultra light. Ash can be very light, or heavier than alder. (ok i know strats are not metal you will say). To my ears mahagony for body,walnut,bubinga,ebony,rosewood for neck..I like more warmer tones. Now about cheap guitars... Setup a MIM strat (or high end squire) correctly, fret dress it correctly, + nut, neck ideal slight back bow, + bridge, action, put a super distortion in the bridge and areas in middle neck and it will make lots of badly setup ibanez's, schechters, LTDs', LP studios, sound inferior. Cheap instruments have also cheap setups (if any). My daughter's baby strat (3/4) (80 EURo) has some problems, but i am sure i could make it sound 2 times better if i just spent an evening with this. Its not nuclear physics or anything abstract mathematics here. Its just wood stiff enuf to take the force of 45-50 Kgr. Sure precision matters a lot, quality of materials as well, and built quality, but in the end the tone-wood hype i think is dead and gone for quite some time now. You will find tons of evidence in here (and tones of evidence as well ) I just saying what I hear.I do not like sound of light guitars...Strat is only exeption but as I sad it`s know more vintage instrument nowdays. Now about the turkish slavery thing and balkan music. I am not so sure who ripped off who, the turkish or the natives? I don't think original turks had this music when they came from China. So it clearly is local. Do not confuse with turbo folk. How about CG/HR ? you can find similar traits there. Nothing turkish in particular. Find me a turkish song which sounds like "Zajdi Zajdi" which personally i consider a balkan masterpiece. You will find nothing. This is pure ancient slavic medieval music. Also, i do not consider Turkish times as slavery. It was a union, just like the EU today. There was peace for many years, and the life relaxed. I am not entirely buying this anti-turkish thing, even if my mom as a teacher had to tell the kids 24x7 how bad turks were. As Turkish slavery speaking I must say that you really do not have a clue too much about how it was lived,don`t you?I do not know where did you get that idea EU?In that time if you don`t want to take Islamic religion,you must pay ubnormal taxes,you must give your wife to sultan before you marrie her.They also take all your male children at the age of 12 and make them Turkish soldiers and you`ll never seen them again.And also those who do not want those"EU"priveliges they have to live in the woods,and if they caught them they cut off their heads, or they were impaled.In short sentences... |
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Post by farren on Apr 15, 2013 17:45:14 GMT -5
Man, save your money and play the guitar as it is. Most of the alteration of the sound comes from amp/effects anyway. I was recording through (own configured) linux audio tool-chain - Rackarrack, JACK, with both an old Aria strat with Dimarzio fast track 2/1, and a home brewed scalloped partscaster with Dimarzio HS-3 in the bridge (malmsteen). Well i could do the nu-metal drop tune sound with the HS-3, and with 9s strings !!! as good as with the Aria and an ibanez arz800 i have with EMG81/60 !! Well not the most usual way to record but you get the point. If I had to save my money and play my Hellraiser as it was (the same guitar studiostriver has), I'd have sold it a week after I bought it. Most people either love EMGs or hate them. I've had an 85, an 81, and a pair of 707tws, played through several good amps, and I can say without a doubt I hate them. The 85/707 sounds amazing into a good clean channel, but that is all for me. They are not chameleons and they respond nothing like passives. I'm curious, do you have any guitars you've "played as it is" and not modified to hell and back? I doubt it. As for doing the "nu metal drop sound" just as well with single coils as with the EMG 81, all I can do is question how discerning your ears are. Pickups and other on-board electronics are secondary in tonal importance only to the amp. Based on your dismissal of wood, I would think you would agree, but perhaps not. Now back to your case (i am contradict my self a couple of times but still get my point through): - EMGs sound sterile you say, and even if we put wire on a fence and an EMG close, it will sound the same. Ok, but how come and we have EMG guitars from 700EUR www.thomann.de/gr/ibanez_arz800tdr.htm to 6000 EUR www.thomann.de/gr/esp_esp_eclipse_custom_shop_stbk.htm which wear the same pickups? For me, EMG81 - EMG 60 sound differently in bridge - neck, and sound fantastic both clean and dirty (still no quack tho ) Good overall pup, covering a very wide range of sounds (minus the quack) - You like cleans you say. Cleans are a synonymous to the strat SC sound, and also to the quack legendary positions 2 & 4. IMHO, no need for any drama if you still do not have those sounds.Wow. Really? Just wow... studiostriver, I'm sorry you had to justify all that. I can appreciate the kind of setup you're going for and urge you to pursue it. In greekdude's defense, though, he's right about cheap wood and you can really save yourself a lot of money (something you emphasize the scarcity of) over the course of your lifet by opening your mind to all of the guitars that have the potential to be wonderful, premium grade instruments when outfitted with the right hardware, electronics, and set-up. I know the kind of things you've been told about "tone wood" (we've all been told wood is important because the vast majority of guitarists believe it), but simply put it just isn't a significant factor in determining how the output of a solid-body electric guitar will sound. Until you manage to eliminate every other point of difference between two guitars outside of wood, you can't really tell us this "cheap wood" is a significant factor in why one guitar sounds different from another. More likely factors are different wiring, pots of different resistance (and different quantity), different scale length, different nut composition, and of course different pickups (two of even the same model can vary enough to be discernible to the ear). Sadly, it's doubtful we'll ever have a scientific study to prove the insignificance of wood relative to the signal produced (wood DOES make a difference when playing unplugged), so guitar manufacturers and luthiers will continue to profit from being able to separate guitars into additional superficial quality tiers based on wood, or being able to sell guitar made of "select" cuts of mahogany and such at an arbitrarily high premium. That doesn't describe everyone in the business, though--there are many luthiers who will shoot straight and tell you wood doesn't matter. They may discourage you from a "dark, full" mahogany neck because a "bright" 3 or 5-piece hard maple neck is likely to prove more stable over the course the instrument's life, and not to the detriment of your desired tone. I say this as someone with a guitar with a maple neck and body, and two guitars with mahogany bodies and necks. The all-mahogany guitars are my brightest guitars and the maple guitar my darkest. If I wanted to, I could easily reverse the roles of all three guitars with some pickup swaps and some 1M/500K pot swaps. As for what greekdude said about the hype being over, I only wish the tone wood myth was dead and gone, but it's sadly still believed by the vast majority of guitarists and you'll get flamed off nearly any other guitar forums for speaking such blasphemies. Just try to resist the urge to base your opinion of this matter on anecdotes. You know, Les Pauls come with four pots by default (300K or 500K depending), warm pickups, and a short scale length. Given that, I would attribute a "dark" Les Paul sound more to the fact that the electronics and scale length are all known to contribute to a "dark, warm" tone rather than this idea that somehow the mahogany and ebony it's made of is primarily, or in any way, responsible for this. Likewise, I'd attribute a Strat's brightness and "twang" to the single coils and the longer scale length and not its ash or alder or whatever wood body, or its maple or rosewood fingerboard. The way people get bogged down by the body and neck composition speaks to the fact that guitarists are primarily artist types, not engineers. I must admit, singing wood is far more romantic than vibrating steel, copper wound around magnets and variable resistors pumping voltage into electron tubes. Anyway, I've already spent more time on wood than I wanted to. That's all I'll say (which was more than enough) as I don't want to get into a wood debate--I've had plenty in my life and always declare "never again." |
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Post by D2o on Apr 15, 2013 20:06:56 GMT -5
To all,
Those who post their opinions in a respectful manner are welcome in this forum. Please bear that in mind before your next post.
Respectfully,
D2o
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Post by studiostriver on Apr 16, 2013 6:52:48 GMT -5
Thanks farren for your opinion.I`m very glad I also heard your point of view. Every comment about this topic is most welcomed. I will bear in mind all words you sad guys.Thanks for all you commnets so far. |
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Post by newey on Apr 18, 2013 23:34:00 GMT -5
I'm not really happy with this. First, it's not very well drawn nor logically laid out. Second, while I'm pretty sure the rest of this is OK, I'm not sure on the wiring of the Blackout preamp, I'm sort of "winging it" on that since I don't really understand what the SD wiring is doing.  This needs to be vetted before use. I did not include a resistor on the power to avoid any "popping" when the battery is switched into the circuit, I'm leaving that for further discussion. Also note that the tone control operates only in passive mode. Once the preamp is switched on (using the P/P pot), the pre is controlled by its own volume pot, and the other 2 pots are not operational. Studiostriver, I'm looking at this more as the start of a discussion than as a final diagram. Don't start wiring just yet . . . |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 2:20:23 GMT -5
Fantastic job man, taking the time to do it also speaks tons (and tones ;D ). I agree about the BMP-1, when i was trying to find specific info for it, i reached the same conclusion. A lot of "liberation" literature but nothing substantial.
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Post by sumgai on Apr 19, 2013 2:35:10 GMT -5
newey,
By hooking the output of the pre-amp in parallel with the output of the "normal" volume pot, here's what's gonna happen:
1) If the normal pups circuitry is in play, then the output of the pre-amp, being of low impedance, will drag down (load) the signal - not a desireable thing.
2) Also, if the pre-amp circuit is in play, then indeed, the normal Volume pot will still control the overall output level. Perhaps not as harmful to the tone, but not the desired result, either.
2a) As a side-note, when the normal Vol pot is at 9 or10, the Tone control will still work as advertised.
Ostensibly, the easy solution is to simply switch between the two outputs via the currently-unused pole of the DPDT on the normal Volume pot. This makes it more or less a True Bypass in re: the SD pre-amp. By leaving the power on at all times (the cable is plugged in), there should be no popping when switching operating modes.
You're correct, that diagram isn't very easy on the eyes, but it does work, given the points I mentioned above.
HTH
sumgai
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Post by newey on Apr 19, 2013 7:39:59 GMT -5
sg-
I'm not following what you mean here. The P/P on the volume pot connects either the passive circuitry to output, or the preamp. So I don't see where there's any loading when in active mode.
Also, as to the "pop" issue, when we switch the P/P pot to bring the active circuit online, won't that casue a "pop" despite the battery being connected via the jack?
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Post by ashcatlt on Apr 19, 2013 16:05:37 GMT -5
newey, you better look again! Both the preamp output and the V pot wiper are permanently connected to the tip of the jack. I was going to post the same thing as sg on that one.
And yes, the caps at input and output of the preamp module will want to charge up to about half the battery voltage when disconnected via the switch (well, the output is currently not switched, but you're fixing that). When you pull the switch, these will discharge rapidly and sound like a pop, or click, or thump, or basically a sudden transient noise that you might not want to hear. It will almost certainly want pulldown resistors on both input and output.
This is pretty standard "best practice" for this type of circuit, and I would call it poor design if they left it out thinking that nobody would ever be switching the thing in or out. But then I guess the bean-counters often end up over-ruling the folks who actually know what they're doing
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Post by newey on Apr 19, 2013 23:42:42 GMT -5
OK, back to the drawing board . . . |
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) but it does decrease coverage a little, how much depending on the height of the bridge/fingerboard above the face of the guitar.
