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Post by D2o on Aug 18, 2008 12:00:49 GMT -5
Hi momo, and WELCOME! to GN2 Keeping the tone low tends to mask some of the single coil hum, so if you go from 1 to 10 it would be expected that you will allow a lot "more" into the mix - including a lot more hum. However, it gets quieter when you touch anything metal ... that suggests some sort of a wiring / ground issue ... yet you say this is a factory wired guitar ... hmmm ... If you compare the links you have included to this one ( www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=3s_1v_2t_5w ) you may find a couple of little differences: 1) the Fender diagram includes a little jumper between the bridge signal return and middle signal return (not the jumper connecting the signal side to signal return side) 2) the hot output to the jack does not come from the middle terminal of the volume pot 3) there is a ground connection from the back of the volume pot to the solder lug I don't know which, if any, would cause the problem you describe, but I seem to recall some discussion a few months back about that solder lug. Hang tight, momo, someone will be along with mo than I got soon enough. DD Edit: Oh! and, of course, shielding will reduce hum substantially.
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Post by D2o on Aug 18, 2008 10:08:37 GMT -5
Hey, now ... I wasn't suggesting that newey should be fast-tracked to the Olympics in China.
DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 15, 2008 21:51:08 GMT -5
Don't look now, but we've got a new God in the forums. Congratulations, newey - that's the fastest rise to the heavens I've seen in GN2 yet (and I think you've earned a +1 for all of your efforts in just 9 short months). DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 15, 2008 9:47:57 GMT -5
WAY COOL!
I have read articles about DARPA sponsored unmanned / robotic vehicle races (in which all of the vehicles are built by university teams). Amazing technology advances over the years.
Here is some video of early development tests when they were still working the kinks out.
DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 14, 2008 15:48:53 GMT -5
mlrpa, At first, the story - as you laid it out - made it seem like you were just p d at young kyle's stupidity. Now it seems you were genuinely concerned about his welfare. Reflecting on it a bit, do you think they thought you were concerned about kyle's welfare, or just on a rant? What if you had accepted the job, and then used the contact info to give kyle (I'm not sure which one) a call and have a chat about your concerns? I hope you do not regret starting this thread. If you were genuinely - but perhaps ineffectively - trying to help young kyle, it's a good thing you did start this thread. Thank you for having enough trust in us to share your past struggles with us. Your perseverance in straightening up and flying right is a reward for all of us. DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 14, 2008 13:10:31 GMT -5
... lucky ... my advanced testing equipment usually causes more problems than it solves ... [/size]...but even with unshielded overwound pickups, the extra foil strip cleared everything up beyond my wildest hopes. [/quote] Yeah, that's the part that still confuses me. Oh well, it works now - for whatever reason - and that's worth a shrug and a smile . Good stuff! DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 13, 2008 21:43:45 GMT -5
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Post by D2o on Aug 13, 2008 12:27:08 GMT -5
Awesome! (I guess that means someone cares ;D ) But ... fill in the blanks for me: was it the shielding to the bridge experiment that got you from here: to here: Was it just improper bridge grounding that was troubling you, or was there more to it? DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 13, 2008 8:54:59 GMT -5
chris, mi frend kyle sez he tinks you is pokin funs at me. I didn't know Orange Drops were only a buck! I can not seem to find them easily here ... here, as in way up North ... and so I figured they were considered exotic (up here, at least ... um, "eh?"). "I'll buy that for a dollar!" (from Robocop) But ... are they actually any better?Stay tuned for the answer to this and other exciting questions in this episode of "kuzi finds out"*. DD * kuzi broadcasting reserves the right to terminate the program without notice.
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Post by D2o on Aug 13, 2008 8:45:10 GMT -5
I have a feeling you'll stumble upon it. Don't worry, it's not your fault, and your name is still good around here. There ... you've already redeemed yourself. The "W" was just an accident! Okay, that's about what I figured from your description and the pics I found at the "W" site. Just thought I'd better not assume. Cool! It should work out fine, and if it doesn't just come back and we'll sort it out. We'll look forward to seeing the pictures ... and you are welcome. (really, you still are welcome, Mr. "W"man ..... ;D) Good luck. No further thoughts for the time being. DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 12, 2008 23:02:46 GMT -5
That's okay - it's a little tricky because of the lack of a direct connection between the pickup cavity and control cavity. I think that sounds good - but I haven't seen this guitar, nor am I personally familiar with Warmoth products (and I am not likely to become any more familiar with Warmoth, as they no longer enjoy the good reputation they once did on this forum, unfortunately ). On that basis, I have a couple of question for you: 1) Does this beast have a pickguard? If so, the cavities will all end up connected via the pickguard, because you are going to put just a little bit of metal tape on the body next to the cavity, right? So the metal tape on the pickguard will connect all of the cavities, and you should be able to run one wire from wherever is most convenient. and, 2) Do the pickup cavities have channels for the wires to run through? If that is the case, there will be continuity in the connection of all pickup cavities via tape running through those channels. If you answered no to either of the above, then go with your initial thought of using three wires. Good luck, and do post pics. We might not be that crazy about Warmoth at the moment, but we like guitars and people - 'specially when they're guitarnuts! DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 12, 2008 11:53:28 GMT -5
You are welcome. ... snicker ... trying to get my instructions straight ... as if ... I don't even know what I mean ... wait, am I just thinking this, or typing this? ... oh crap! ...Sure, sure ... of course. Certainly. I think if you are going to do that, you might as well just have the shielding in connection with the shielding, so you would run the wire from the control cavity shield to the pickup cavity shield (the star ground is insulated from the shield). I urge you to wait for the input of others on this though - I am not going to pretend that I am clear on it. Sounds like sunglasses are required while viewing the instrument! You are welcome, although I wouldn't be too thankful yet ... you may want to murder me if this doesn't work out. DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 12, 2008 10:34:48 GMT -5
Seeing as you've used the term "metallic" below, to mean something other than metal, I want to play safe and clarify that it is aluminum duct tape (i.e. "metal" duct tape).
No, the adhesive is not conductive.
Good question on the connection.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean - cavity to cavity, or piece to piece.
If you mean cavity to cavity, it may be a given, where the pots contact the shielding in one cavity, and the pickup rings contact the shielding in another cavity, and then the wiring itself may end up connecting the cavities. I guess you could run a wire from one shielded cavity to the other, but I'm not sure ... would you mind waiting for the input of others on this?
If you mean piece to piece, what I do is fold under about 1/4" of one edge of each piece of tape, so that you end up with the underside of the folded under edge nearest and contacting the top of each piece of tape as you install it - sort of like shingles. Does that makes sense? I usually then put another piece of aluminum tape over the "seam" where the two meet, to ensure continued contact.
Damn drug smugglers! They used that paint to throw off the x-ray machines.
That paint shouldn't have enough (if any) conductivity to have any effect - plus you will only have non-conductive adhesive in contact with the paint anyway ...
DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 12, 2008 9:04:04 GMT -5
Hi bishop, When I first came here, I didn't even kow the difference between a strat and a guitar with one humbucker, so don't be bashful about asking. You will definitely learn. I'll try my best, and - don't worry - where I am off-track, someone else will jump in and save your bacon. You could also use aluminum duct tape - the metal one, not "aluminized cloth" ... it's a lot easier to put on and to take off, imho. Yes, and no ... see below (also, by coincidence, my very first post here was not too far from what you are asking about, and the replies I received may also answer some questions for you: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=1133 ) I think you want to do this ... if you have those contact the shielding, you will achieve the second part of your question above Yes and yes Not typically. Your's is rear-routed ... so maybe, if it somehow causes any area of the pickup cavity to not be fully shielded (which I am doubtful of). Yes. That's probably just for smuggling drugs - if you ignore it, the authorities will too. Hang tight, others will come along and clarify anything I may have bungled in my haste. DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 12, 2008 8:32:21 GMT -5
just playing devils advocate, do you think that any of the people didnt step up to the plate because of the mentioned reasons for not conducting the test? (cost, time, whatnot) If you get a good and honest guy at a GC they should have bothe the time and the guitaras to do it. (i know its a waste of money to them but IN THEORY it could be) ... oh wait, honesty at GC? it may be a problem at my local GC. this is actually intriging to me. I may have to set up a double blind of my own. maybe int he same guitar. Id have to set the caps up in a varitone style set up. the hard part is getting the two caps of different styles that are actually the same values. time to break out the multimeter... A test would be nice, but it's far more practical to $ell Orange Drops to those who want them and move on from those who don't. Unless you can trick some windbag into doing this, I don't think anyone will be intrigued enough to do it ... they tend to have other things to pur$ue. Actually - even if you set up the varitone or whatever - if you can get someone to agree to a double-blind test, that would be an accomplishment in itself. On that basis, go to it, man! If you are intrigued enough, do your own thing, for your own edification. And try to take some recordings somehow, with variables as controlled as possible, so that you can have an aural and visual comparison of the various caps (I am no expert, but, for what it's worth, you can look at this post for info on how I created an aural and visual comparison guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=reference&action=display&thread=3375 ). I'm not saying you should or shouldn't do this ... but nothing ventured, nothing gained. DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 11, 2008 17:21:00 GMT -5
I love humorous replys! Just wish I saw one. ;D dud, w8 a sec ... wuz that you at that stor, man? glad u see the humer. I sympathize with you, and I gotta second Chris a little bit. Unless you are the only game in town, nobody won ... the idiot still had his money (seemingly in endless supply, for the unlimited use of idiot junior) ... and idiot junior just went to your competition to get what he wanted (as opposed to kneeded ... as in a knee to the package) ... You could have continued to chastise the young punk - let's call him kyle, and made your point (as much as was possible), while you made some legitimate money (a friend in kneed is a friend indeed). The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. You sure as heck aren't going to change that. Besides, kyle is probably a lot older than he looks ... after all, no one could get that stupid that fast. DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 11, 2008 13:00:39 GMT -5
hoog, Very nice! I've taken the " th_" out from the image address (it causes little thumbnails, instead of the larger size picture your good work deserves). DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 11, 2008 12:29:49 GMT -5
As usual, when the hype starts rolling aroond, I always reply politely with a simple "Would you be willing to submit to a double-blind test to prove that?" So far, no one's taken me up on the offer. Lets just say some sales-person DID take you up on that offer. how would you go about setting that up? The big guy also stated that here: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=3383A double-blind test is a control group test where neither the evaluator nor the subject knows which items are controls. The purpose of the double-blind testing is to reduce error, self-deception and bias. The thing is ... those who already know already know there will be no difference. Those who don't know quickly put two and two together ... rather than risk looking like a shmuck when they have to publicly admit that there is no difference, they break like the wind. Now that you know that, offer away, but plant your feet firmly so that you don't get sucked away in the vacuum of their vapour trails. There are a few ways you could actually do the test, but there is also a practical problem of money and time. You can't afford two or more identical guitars in which you would install various capacitors, nor can you sit around waiting for one guitar to have the various capacitors soldered in. This is where McGyver would really be handy. I bet McGyver would do something on the guitar like have two 12" pieces of wire (wire ... another subject of over-selling one type versus another) protruding from the guitar, one end of each of the wires soldered to one of the spots you would solder one of the legs of a capacitor (i.e. when you attach the capacitor to the protruding ends, you would end up with the correct attachment of the capacitor, only it would be connected outside of the guitar). You would then have an impartial third party attach the various capacitors, one leg to each protruding end of each piece of wire. The capacitor itself would be hidden (in a box or an envelope or whatever the impartial third party dreams up) so that none of the evaluators / subjects know what's going on. Then you play it or taste it or whatever until all of the testers are satisfied that they are clear in their decision about which, if any, they prefer. Until now, none of the testers have had any knowledge about which cap is which. After the test is complete, the types of capacitors and the results are revealed. It might go something like this: "The first sample is a capacitor from the electronic surplus store. The price was 5 for $2.00." "The next sample is an orange drop capacitor. It costs $5.00 per capacitor." "10 out of 10 noted no difference in tone" or "5 out of ten preferred the Orange Drop, and 5 out of 10 preferred the other." ... ... or some other combination of the above. All of the above is imaginary, as no one has ever actually accepted the offer ... but it's probably something like how it might go. DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 8, 2008 8:10:12 GMT -5
HB! ... um ... "hb" Have a good one! DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 5, 2008 12:28:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure what to tell you about the volume thing. Maybe you could adjust the taper with a resistor or two, but I'm not the best person to tell you exactly how to accomplish that. The fact that you're getting more noise in 2 and 4 means you've got 2 coils (M+(N or B)) contributing to the noise. Are you sure that the middle pickup has reversed magnetic polarity to the other two? You can test it by trying to push the pole pieces of the middle pickup onto those on one of the others. If they stick you're good there, and the noise means you've wired the middle pickup backwards. Does it sound especially thin or phasey in those positions? I'm with ash - a little stumped. If it was a case of incorrect polarity or something, there would be a weak, "tinny" sound in the 2 or the 4 ... but I don't think there is a combination that could cause that in the 2 and the 4 position*, so it must be something else ... ... but I dunno what. DD * (this assumes that your Texas Specials have the same layout (polarity/position) as a set of stock pups does ... but maybe you have all three of the same polarity?)
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Post by D2o on Aug 4, 2008 18:21:05 GMT -5
... well, it doesn't really matter what you wrote, just that you wrote ... Holy moly ... vonFrenchie! Welcome back, buddy! DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 2, 2008 10:41:56 GMT -5
Good question.
I think the jumper you mention merely replaces the one that went from the terminal to the back of the pot, where the pickups were grounded before.
Now they all go to the star ground, which is insulated from the actual shielding chassis.
As an aside, the wires between the backs of the pot cases are removed because they would be a ground loop - which sounds ominous ; I like your term better ... "redundant", which I think is closer to the truth.
DD
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Post by D2o on Aug 1, 2008 14:47:17 GMT -5
Ay, yes. The "Riverdance" guy.
Yes ... and yes, electrical and magnetic continuity are key to shielding.
Hmmm, seeing as the QTB instructions call for the wire from the tremolo to be attached to the shielding at the bottom of the cavity, I think your method may have some merit ... although I've not tried it that way. I dunno? ... try it and see?
Personally, I'd rather use a wire from the bridge or tremolo. What if you file the rusty burn mark down a bit for traction?
One time I just couldn't get the wire to stay soldered (!) and eventually just wrapped a wire around one of the screws holding the bridge down instead ... I was desperate and it was better than nothing.
DD
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Post by D2o on Jul 31, 2008 9:03:03 GMT -5
Hi Alex, The 47p sounds like it would be a tone capacitor ... except it wouldn't normally be on the volume pot ... You aren't mixing up any pots are you? (I doubt it, but I sure would like to see some pictures, or even a diagram that you can make using the Windows "Paint" tool (click "Start"menu, All Programs, Accessories, Paint). Otherwise, I am feeling somewhat in the dark (and I would imagine newey is also). With respect to your pickup values, I've seen lower. I was working on a cheap guitar with two humbuckers, each of which measured about 5.5 K ohms (about the same as a typical single coil). But that's a rare instance ... we typically see higher readings for humbuckers. When you do measure in positions 2 and 4, I would imagine you should be getting readings of somewhere between 4k ohms and 4.5k ohms, based on the readings you've already given us. As newey pointed out, your neck and bridge pups would normally be the opposite of what you have - the pickup with the higher ohms reading would be at the bridge, where the string vibration is not as great as in the neck position. As far as that goes, the OBL could be in the neck position, and the current bridge pup could be your middle pup. But that doesn't explain why your OBL is weak ... Those are weird things happening on the 20k setting ... it sounds like you are getting readings as high as 19k ohms (correct?) and a second before you get to 10 it gives the readings you've listed, but what happens when you actually get to 10?Can you clarify any of the questions that newey and I have asked? Bear with us, Alex ... it's hard to diagnose over the internet, especially without any visual aid. DD
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Post by D2o on Jul 30, 2008 22:36:35 GMT -5
Hi quarry,
I am afraid I also do not know anything about that craviola.
DD
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Post by D2o on Jul 30, 2008 16:53:02 GMT -5
Thank you andywelsh, and +1 for finding this. I think it comes at a good time, too. I have coincidentally noticed a bit of diminishing traffic around the forum lately, and there are some familiar names that have been missing. I won't name them, but it would be nice to see more of them. I know it's summer (in North America, anyway) and that stuff happens and people get caught up with important things that trump GN2, but I also think that if interested parties were to use this function that andy has discovered, we may have more traffic and participation around here - which would be great! DD
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Post by D2o on Jul 30, 2008 8:32:48 GMT -5
Thanks DD Yes, the ground was wired to the back of the volume pot shell. I have only two potentiometer. One Volume, one tone. It is an old Casio Midi guitar. I don't use midi functions for years, but the guitar is pretty good even without all this trumpery. I study your scheme, but it is not so different from my current. As far as I remember how potentiometers works, it is pretty much identical. Is there any possibility that phases could messed internally in a pickup? How can I measured the pickups? Cheers Alex You are welcome, Alex, Yes, I think the schematics are about the same as well, but I thought with a different layout it may draw attention to something that may have been missed with only one. Those old Casio guitars are highly rated by Harmony-Central user reviewers. I see that you have already read ChrisK's tutorial: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index....read=1176413665I won't go into the meaning of the numbers here. This is a summary of the physical steps involved in getting the measurements of your pickups using a multimeter: - connect the probes to the “COM” and the “Volt/Ohms” or “Volt/Ohms/mA” inputs of your multimeter - set your multimeter to 20k ohms - touch the tips of the probes together and you should see a "0" on the display. - plug one end of your cord into your guitar. - connect either one of the probes to the tip of the loose end of the guitar cord, and connect the other probe to the sleeve of the guitar cord. - with the volume control at minimum, you should have a reading of "0". - next, with the volume at maximum, you should have a higher reading – it may be around 15000 ohms with a humbucker (in which case your display would say "15.00"). - then set the meter to 2000k ohms. - with the probes still attached, slowly rotate the volume knob from 0 to 10 and record the highest level of resistance (it should be 125 – 250, depending on your pot) – it should occur somewhere near the middle volume. Report your results back to us. DD
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Post by D2o on Jul 29, 2008 11:30:18 GMT -5
I opened axe and this is wiring diagram I use guitarelectronics.zoovy.com/product/WDUSSS5L1101Middle one is OBL. Red wire (not white as I wrote) goes to 5 way switcher while ground and black wire I wired together to the ground of the volume potentiometer. Hi arsov, You have soldered the ground wires to the back of the volume pot shell, correct? (i.e. not to a terminal) Do you actually have two pots, or do you have three and you are just not using one? Here is a link to a SeymourDuncan schematic, so you can see how a guitar that really has one volume and one tone could be wired. Perhaps you can spot some difference by comparing the two: www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=3s_1v_1t_5wI have read one poor review of an OBL pickup, claiming low output - anything is possible I guess, but that does seem like just one guy's rare poor opinion amongst a bunch of glowing reviews ... What if you just pretended you only actually have one volume and one tone and wired it as seen in the link above? Good luck. DD
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Post by D2o on Jul 26, 2008 7:01:05 GMT -5
Great job (and report), macphyst. Ash has already given you his comments - which you can take to the bank, and I just wanted to pipe in on the diagram too. I second his sentiment - in fact, I quite like this diagram. DD
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Post by D2o on Jul 26, 2008 6:53:38 GMT -5
Ding! Good stuff. I'm glad you found what you were looking for. DD
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