JH's Jimmy Page

[newey]

Here's what I come up with as far as a diagram of the switch selections. Not sure about the Broadbucker thing:

[JohnH]

Apologies, I got distracted by life. Thanks for your table newey. I think it is right. Íts not easy to present a simple table for 5 switches, so here is another version:



I'll put that on Post 1 for reference.

As to this 'Broadbucker' setting, First of all, its not a description I use myself, because the idea of it is much older than when the term was coined on this forum. It comprises the two pickups in series, with the neck pup bypassed by a cap, which in this design, can be achieved by rolling down the neck tone control. You can do this with humbucker or single coil settings on each pickup, so there's 4 versions available.

So, for the loudest, all humbuckers version, per this design, all knobs in except S2 out, and roll down the neck tone (shown in diagram attached to S2). The main toggle S5 can be in any position, but if you set it to the bridge, you can use S2 in and out to switch from standard bridge humbucker, to Bridge humbucker with extra neck bass (= Broadbucker).

Try the same with S1 and S3 coil cuts.

cheers

John

[timothyrb]

I don't get how the dual mix wiring gets the "broadbucker" sound.

Isn't:
bridge>tone bypass>neck>volume

different than:
neck>tone bypass>bridge>volume

it would seem like the order of series would matter when you try to introduce a bypass capaciter in between.

[JohnH]

May 3, 2011 16:02:09 GMT -5 timothyrb said:

I don't get how the dual mix wiring gets the "broadbucker" sound.

Isn't:
bridge>tone bypass>neck>volume

different than:
neck>tone bypass>bridge>volume

it would seem like the order of series would matter when you try to introduce a bypass capaciter in between.

In this version of the JP scheme, the tone controls are wired across the pickups, rather than with one end to ground. (one end of the tone control does of course, get grounded in parallel mode, or for one of the pickups in series mode). So for these broadbucker sounds, when you turn one tone pot all the way down and the other on full, the first tone cap is either going from the series link to ground (for neck pup in this case), or from series link to hot (for bridge pup). Either way works, and youd get thé same two sounds if the pups were in the reversed order. As I understand it, Broadbucker = series wiring of pickups, one tone up one tone down.

Not all JP schemes do this, it needs this way of wiring the tone controls, for individual tone control in series mode, rather than an overall master tone.

Also, I think whether this type of sound is usful depends a lot on the pickups, and maybe other factors such as leads and amp. On my Strat clone with active buffer, the equivalent sound with neck and bridge (single coils) or Neck and Middle is very useful. On my LP, I'm not finding it's such a difference in tone from full series, but I do find cap-bypassing just one of the bridge coils to be very handy. It could be because my Bridge pickup is already a fair bit hotter sounding (ie louder and bitier) than the neck, even though the resistance readings are not so different

John

[sonosonny]

John, I wired an LP using your JP Mod a couple of weeks ago. I dig the stealth mode on this mod.

The LP was the standard mahog body/maple top/rosewood set neck. Tons of sustain and after a fret level/crown/polish it is a joy to play.

It was, yep for Rune to sell, but…he is having second thoughts after saddling up and wailing on it.

Your JP mod is very cool and as always Rune requested specific SC’s to be active (GFS HB's) versus the standard wiring. I figured that out and made sure they were still hum cancelling.

A “feature” I dig is that when the Bridge PUP only is selected with the SC - P/P selected, the OOP - P/P can be used to select either one of the Bridge SC’s (Pole or Slug). On this build the PUPS had chrome covers , so selecting the Pole SC really kicks the juice up versus the covered Slug SC. On open coil PUPs, this “feature” would probably be less noticeable.

Just today I wired up my recently purchased Epi SG ’62 model (Cherry/set neck) with your JP Mod. Have an SD Jazz in the neck and the SD JB in the Bridge. Still getting to know the new config/PUPs combos.

Thought I would let you know your JP Mod is a fave here in Texas.

SOS

[JohnH]

Thanks for the news.

It's also interesting to hear your point about the sounds of diferent coils in a covered HB - that's my experience too. On my LP. I did magnet and wire flippage to get two adjustable coils to be humcancelling together. Recently, I took the cover off my neck PU and it really opened up the sound. I think Ill always want uncovered pickups now.

[sonosonny]

Yeah, Rune always said the chrome covers "muffle" the slug coil and I was always skeptical.

But after experiencing it with that "JH JP feature" Bridge SC comparison, I have to agree as well....

This was the first "wiring customization" I have done on chrome covered HB's. Others were all open HB's or "F" SCoils.


SOS

[showerstm]

Hello everyone,

I'm planning to wire up my LP using John's design, but I wanted to move the switching functions to the opposite pots (coil cuts on tone, phase/series on vol). I edited the diagram to what I think will give me this result, as well as putting the tone pots on the output of the volume (forgot to draw the ground connection on neck volume, oops). Can anybody see anything wrong with this (apart from the neck vol grounding) or should it function just like the original apart from the switching locations?

[newey]

showerstm-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

What I see there looks OK, but my level of confidence is low.

Best to have another set of eyes on it before you start wiring it up. It's a complex scheme, it's Friday night, I've had a beer or three- you get the picture!

[JohnH]

hi showerstm, thanks for posting.

On the diagram, I see the approach you have taken is to keep the switches graphically in the same places, and move the pot function and associated wiring. Based on that, I think the bridge section is OK, but the neck section needs the original orange wire replaced in a new position, and the black and blue wires adjusted for the new arrangement.

One thing that you might think of with your layout is that you could use it to place the controls, if you wish, in the traditional LP positions instead of the different arrangement that I drew. Just rotate the diagram 90 degress clockwise when you wire it. Having had an LP for a few years now, I think that is what I would do.

Also, consider the 56k resistors if you go with this buffered version. What they do is allow slightly easier mixes in parallel. But when you have it wired, try bypassing them and see the difference. Also, try the buffered and un-buffered (with no 56k's)tones and see which you like best. My Gibson with fairly similar scheme sounds best with no buffer and treble bleed circuits, while my LP copy is better with the buffer.

John

[showerstm]

Thanks for the replies guys.

John. I think I may have misunderstood part of the function of the blue wire going from the neck volumes right lug to the neck tone swtiches middle contact on the right. It seems now that if the guitar were in series mode, the neck volume would work by sending the signal from the pickup, through the volume pot, then directly back to the pickup with no connection to the ground on the jack. If I'm not mistaken so far, does the pot also serve to divide the signal from the bridge pickup between passing through the neck pickup (via the red wire to blue wire to black wires to white pickup lead) and passing directly to the output (via the red wire to blue wire to volume pot/sweeper to 56k resister etc.) so that as the neck volume is turned down, the signal from the bridge pickup doesn't also get stuck in circuit between the neck pup and neck volume control?

I'm going to attempt to redraw the schematic now and I'll post the update when I finish.

Thanks again!

[showerstm]

I tried to analyze all of the potential signal paths and functions in the original diagram so I could make sure they were all present here, but the only thing I could see that was missing was the blue wire on neck volumes right lug. The capacitor across neck vol and neck tone seems to serve the same functions as the orange lead (bleeding treble from neck pup, and letting treble from bridge pup bypass neck pup when in series).

In parallel mode, the blue and black wires (from what I can see) serve to connect; the start of the neck pup, the treble from the neck tone control, and the 'ground' lug of the neck volume control, all to ground.

When in series they connect; the bridge pup signal (minus what is allowed to bypass via the tone circuit), the treble from the neck tone circuit, and the 'ground' lug of the neck volume, all back to the start of the neck pup.

It's very possible (and I suspect likely) that I need to change something, either because I'm missing a function present in your diagram or because there's a flaw in mine that I don't see, but after adding the blue wire I can't see anything else wrong :s

Thanks again for all the help, I'd have wound up building it half a dozen times to find all mistakes otherwise lol.

[JohnH]

im still seeing differences. Heres one that applies on both neck and bridge: the tone control circiuts (pot and cap in series) need to go across the outer lugs of eth volume pots, currently your versio has then to th einner volume pot lugs.

John

[reTrEaD]

Hi John. According to his statements in Reply #37, wiring the tones after the volumes was intentional. Imho it's not a good idea, but he meant to do it that way.

[showerstm]

Hey guys,

I put the tone circuit after the volume thinking it would preserve some treble when the volume control was lowered. I've read that this helps but never tried it before, though I do find that with the tone on the volumes input lug it starts to get darker if I turn the volume control down below 5-6. After reading reTrEaD suggest that he thought it wouldn't be a good idea I began to search for the disadvantages to 50's wiring and found another post by John about the tone acting like a volume control when the volume is reduced. Back to the input it goes I guess.

[reTrEaD]

Imho the worst part about having the tone control after the volume isn't what happens when the volume is turned down with the tone on 10. It's what happens when you roll down the volume control after the tone is adjusted for a modest to moderate amount of cut. Even a slight reduction in volume will multiply the action of the tone control. What started off as a moderate amount of treble cut has now become severe.

Any slight improvement in treble when the tone is on 10 pales in comparison with this annoying interaction. Best to put the tone before the volume.

Treble loss with reduced volume is best addressed by a proper treble-bleed network, or in your case by using a buffer.

[showerstm]

I had no idea that was a side effect. Thanks for the info, it's great to have other peoples experience as a guide.

[swingarm]

Forgive me if I missed it but is there a schematic of the buffer board for the MK2 active output? I see the layout but am unclear how to hook it up.

[haydukej]

Swing, I think you might be missing the note on the figure that on the other side of the layout board there are copper strips running in a parallel direction. Look on the first page of this thread on the figure where the buffer image is enlarged. That is what the Veroboard or stripboard is. So you have to make sure you have the component leads soldered into the right "rows". At the end of the rows you have the battery +/- leads, a ground, signal in, and signal out. Does that help?

[newey]

haydukej- I read swingarm to mean that he was looking for a true schematic and not just a wiring diagram.

swingarm- JohnH has a link back at the beginning of this thread where he had linked to his buffer designs. My recollection is that the linked thread included both schematics and wiring diagrams. But a while back, Proboards switched our url on us, so older links no longer work, as they now point to a non-existent url.

JohnH- Can you resurrect the broken link here? I can't find the original thread.

[JohnH]

I fixed the links I the first post, to show more abou the buffer. THis one has more pictures of it from both sides:

LPmax

it works fine as shown, but I think building it now, I would drop the 100k resistor to about 56k for using a guitar amp. If it was also intended for driving the (low impedance) line input of a mixer, the 100k would drop to 33k and the 330nF cap would increase to 1uF with a 2.2M resistor to tie the output to ground (the the buffer thread, also linked in the first post).

[wilsonic]

Just came across this thread. I have the JP wiring in my guitar, but am always open to making it better and I'm considering doing the John H wiring. Does this mod have independent volumes or master volumes? My current wiring is independent and I want to fix that first off. I like the dead sound of the middle toggle position when one volume is turned down.

My setup is passive except for an EMG PA2 boost toggle installed at output. Does that qualify as a buffer or not really? I believe it changes the impedance whether on or off. Needless to say, I'm no wiring master but I get the job done... eventually. I was wondering if this changes the need for the caps and resistors.

More questions to come I'm sure.

[reTrEaD]

Feb 18, 2015 14:43:03 GMT -5 wilsonic said:

Does this mod have independent volumes or master volumes?

John uses a conventional volume control arrangement. Thus it will result in killing all sound when either volume control is set at zero with both pickups selected (in the parallel mode). John added the 56k "separating resistors" to mitigate this kill effect, so it sounds to me as if you would choose to omit them and keep the kill effect.

When the series mode is selected the Gibson toggle is completely bypassed and has no effect.

Feb 18, 2015 14:43:03 GMT -5 wilsonic said:

My setup is passive except for an EMG PA2 boost toggle installed at output. Does that qualify as a buffer or not really? I believe it changes the impedance whether on or off. Needless to say, I'm no wiring master but I get the job done... eventually. I was wondering if this changes the need for the caps and resistors.

The PA2 is a buffer. In fact, it's actually two buffers. The PA2's switch selects between a unity gain buffer or a trimpot adjustable buffer that provides up to 20dB of gain.

If you notice John's version of the wiring that includes a buffer (Mk2 Active output), the treble bleed caps (1nF) and resistors (220k) are not used. This would be the proper version to use with your PA2. If you wish to retain the "kill" effect you will also replace the 56k resistors with a direct connections via wires.

[JohnH]

Yes to all rT says above.

A couple of other points:
The volume controls are both active in series mode. You can use them to set the contribution of each pickup from 0 to 100% and in that mode, they don't cut out the other pickup if set at zero. Similarly the tones work seperately on the sound from each pickup without dulling the other.

The original layout has the pot functions differently placed to a normal LP.

with your output circuit, no need for treble bleed. Lose the 56k resistors if you wish.

[wilsonic]

Thanks Retread and John H, I think I'll give it a go! Keep you posted if I run into a snag.

[wilsonic]

Hey guys, stupid question here. Is the lower left lead on the neck tone to the bridge pickup side of the 3-way, and the middle left lead on the neck tone to the neck pickup side of the 3-way?

Also, the upper right lead on the neck tone is grounded, right?

[JohnH]

yes, I agree

[wilsonic]

Well I finished the wiring mod and everything sounds great! Love the way this setup works. I did put 47's in place of the 22's though. Wanted a little less treble in my guitar. Thanks guys. Thanks John for a great mod!!

[JohnH]

(The following 5 posts were moved from a different thread:

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/9135/easy-jimmy-page-wiring


8/9/2020)

Since my old diagram has been dug up, it needs a few caveats itself:

It was done almost 15 years ago. Since then, more work on treble bleed circuits determined that the 220k resistors are better changed to 150k. While I like TB circuits on all my guitars, most people don't have them and some don't like them. But on this design, they are important particularly in series mode.

At the time, I was interested in adding buffer circuits to guitars and tried a few in various schemes. They give a very robust signal that can drive long cables, and even drive lower impedance inputs like Line-in's on mixers. They add high-end clarity. But, I now think that the best guitar tone comes from good pickups and not too long cables, in the usual way. The schematic covers both versions, but for normal use the 56k resistors can be omitted. This were added in to help with mixing in parallel, which they do, but also change the interactions between pickups.

The thread it came from was this one:

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3159/jhs-jimmy-page

There is a wiring diagram there too, but I swapped around the pot positions which I wouldn't do now. Theres too many decades passed of everyone knowing where LP knobs should be.

[neophytebuilder]

JohnH have you posted your update schematic?