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Post by FireBall on Mar 10, 2009 20:21:48 GMT -5
Ok, the suspense is killing me, when can I hear it? I really curious about the harmony part! I do want to know how many of you lost your teeth fillings listening to my playing?  ;D Hey Cynical.. got my windows open here!  FireBall |
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Post by lpf3 on Mar 10, 2009 20:38:45 GMT -5
FireBall It's no big deal - I took one chorus (toward the end ) & loosely mimicked your part in 4ths . Real 80's glam stuff .  My son told me to do it in 3rds but that was too Cheech & Chong - ish for my taste . There's a delay in me uploading it , but I'm workin on it . -lpf3 |
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Post by FireBall on Mar 10, 2009 20:43:44 GMT -5
SWEET! ;D
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 10, 2009 22:02:19 GMT -5
Ash -
Check your FTP site in the /upload directory. You will find lpf3's latest track - file name T06_01.WAV.
Glad we got this hammered out...
This song is really starting to fill up. I'm getting a little pumped about hearing the next mix myself...
To anyone still on the fence...the house is a rockin dont bother knockin'...the house is a rockin dont bother come on in...
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by newey on Mar 10, 2009 22:41:43 GMT -5
It occurs to me, this being a technically-minded forum, that those who contributed to this effort should outline how they made their track(s), what equipment was used, and so forth. Ashcatlt outlined how he got the drum track earlier. My rhythm track was done on this guitar, which I finished last summer:  I ran it into a Boss CS-2 Compressor/sustainer, and from there into my USB/guitar interface. It was recorded using Cubase LE4, and then a variety of plugins were added, including a Marshall stack sim and Boogex cab sim. Starting from square one at this digital recording stuff, but I'm making headway. Since doing the track, I have experimented with miking an amp rather than the DI route, and it works out a lot better. If I had it to do over again, that's what I would change. |
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 10, 2009 23:11:22 GMT -5
newey, that was going to be my next post. My track (the overdriven rhythm off to the left) was performed on my 3 humbuckers, no pots strat copy in the Neck (parallel) + Middle (series) position. This was run into my Bass V-amp, set to the "Organ Classic" amp model. This is supposed to simulate both the internal Hammond amp and the Leslie amp/speaker. It is not spinning. In fact, the Rotary effect on this box is pretty sad. I like the amp sound, though. From here it was s/pdif into my Steinberg VSL-2020 soundcard and recorded into Sonar. I've downloaded lpf's new track, and about to listen to it. |
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 11, 2009 0:31:19 GMT -5
Well, as long as you guys promise not to laugh...
I played this on my trusty 1988 Peavey Foundation bass with .105-.045 roundwounds. I've had this one for about 18 years and will never buy another bass.
The actual recording was a bit more convoluted. As I have no USB or Firewire interface, and my mic acted up just as I started laying down tracks...I had to improvise. Stay with me, it gets better...
The signal chain is bass into Crate BX-220H amp, Digitech BP-80 in the effects loop (set as Trace Elliot emulation), out the headphone jack, into an old Bass Rockman to boost the signal, and finally into the line-in on a SoundBlaster 5.1 soundcard.
The track was recorded in Audacity, then processed in an old demo version of Sonar 6. I lost track of all the plugins I tried and kept on this track. I know the Boogex cab simulator stayed, set for an Ampeg simulation. I deliberately EQ'd the track down to stay out of the guitar range.
Because the computer I was using is a bit too long in the tooth for this, I wound up applying effects, rendering off a track, loading the rendered track and repeating this process until I got it where I wanted it. The final mix on the bass is actually two tracks run together to give it a more punchy flatwound sound.
I wish I knew then what I've learned over the past 3 months. Ash's life would have been a bit easier...this track came out a little hot...
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 11, 2009 1:05:14 GMT -5
New mix is up.
Enjoy.
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Post by FireBall on Mar 11, 2009 8:14:23 GMT -5
Where can we go to hear it? I used my Warmoth built guitar.. My old DigiTech GSP-7 preamp/processor lined directly in. I recorded with Audacity. I didn't apply any pluggins after laying down the track.  |
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 11, 2009 10:10:39 GMT -5
[Where can we go to hear it? Just for reference, for anyone who joined this thread late, anytime there's a new track I update the first post in the thread. You can grab the mp3 preview and the WiP .wav from these links. And that's a pretty guitar you got there, mister... Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by FireBall on Mar 11, 2009 16:58:03 GMT -5
[Where can we go to hear it? Just for reference, for anyone who joined this thread late, anytime there's a new track I update the first post in the thread. You can grab the mp3 preview and the WiP .wav from these links. And that's a pretty guitar you got there, mister... Happy Trails Cynical One Thank you!! Wow - that's really startin ' to sound like something . Fireball , I see where you get your handle ! Nice work . I just wanna know how we're gonna license this thing  -lpf3 Thanks, actually I got the name from a guy that trained me on a job at work. He made the comment.. "he's getting the hang of it, but he ain't no FIREBALL..." the other guys in the department heard that and the name stuck... I still don't get it though... LOL The Jam sounds really good! Nice job!! This was fun guys, especially the fact that some/all haven't had the pleasure of meeting anyone face to face. FireBall |
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Post by lpf3 on Mar 11, 2009 22:15:23 GMT -5
Well , for my track(s) I played my Squier 51 recorded directly into the Boss BR1200CD . It has COSM amp modeling & I used a preset called Woman Tone . I increased the noise reduction a little & turned off the delay but other than that went with it straight out of the box . From there I exported it via USB to my desktop & then into Cynical1's file sharing site . My pickups were N + series Bridge HB . If I were to change anything I would have tried Neck only , as it is I think my tone came out sorta transistor radio-ish .
Ash- I'd like to know more about the drum program you used . Is it the kind where you drag & drop preset patterns & fills into a region to build the drum track ? My current drum mach . is a Boss DR670 DR. Rhythm . I can write a great drum program with it but it's pretty old school & real labor intensive .
I sure had alot of fun jammin' with you guys hope we do it again .......
-lpf3
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 11, 2009 23:12:08 GMT -5
The pattern itself comes from some minimal manipulation of one of the blues-based demo songs in Jammer Professional. I'm using v.4 because it's the last one that looked familiar. I've been using it since Windows for Workgroups, and as much as I have always said I wanted all the improvements the newer version offers I just can't use it! The sounds are the basic kit from E-Z drummer. It's by far the cheapest of the massively multisampled drum synths out there. It sounds great, though, and they've got an expansion dedicated to Michael Blair's "kit"! This is the first piece of software I've bought in a long time, and I don't regret it. The Jammer stuff was exported to MIDI, then imported into Sonar, where Twisted Kit was assigned and the whole thing rendered. I did have to go through the snare rolls and select every other hit and transpose it so it sounded like it was being struck with the other stick. I think the links in the above quote will get you some pretty good information about the programs I used, but I can tell you a bit. EZDrummer does come with its own set of drum patterns, and I believe you can drag and drop these into a DAW to create a song. They're pretty good for what they are, but I'm not overly impressed. I don't use them, mostly because I've been using Jammer for years and I prefer the way it works. I use EZDrummer as a sound source, a MIDI instrument only. For this it's great. It's "massively multi-sampled". Each drum has a number of samples for different velocities since a drum doesn't sound the same if you it harder than if you hit it more lightly. Each of these velocity layers also has different samples captured at the same time through different mics - the close mic, the overheads, the room, even the bottom snare complete with sympathetic rattling. The program includes a mixer, and also allows to send each mic to its own track in the DAW. Jammer is an algorithmic accompaniment composer type thing. There's another product out there called Band-In-A-Box which does something similar with a much more descriptive name, though when I used it (back when we could still see the 80s in the rear-view mirror) I didn't like that one. It'll do full band accompaniment. Just tell it the tempo, meter, and chord progression. Choose a style or two, and hit the compose button. It spits out MIDI data with which you can then do as you please. If the preset styles aren't to your liking you can get in and edit the "Composer's" parameters. Basically, each Composer type (Snare, Rhythm, Melody, etc.) has a set of basic patterns and variations (including some which are user definable). You set arbitrary weighting values to help it decide which of these patterns to play at any given point. The newer version is much more powerful than the old version I've got (it came on 3.5" floppies). When I tried it, though, it seemed like it wanted me to do a lot more preparatory work before it would give me any result at all. In fact, as I said above, it now does what I used to say I wished it would do, but I find it unusable. Maybe I'm just older than I think.  |
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Post by FireBall on Mar 13, 2009 21:07:23 GMT -5
It occurs to me, this being a technically-minded forum, that those who contributed to this effort should outline how they made their track(s), what equipment was used, and so forth. Ashcatlt outlined how he got the drum track earlier. My rhythm track was done on this guitar, which I finished last summer: I ran it into a Boss CS-2 Compressor/sustainer, and from there into my USB/guitar interface. It was recorded using Cubase LE4, and then a variety of plugins were added, including a Marshall stack sim and Boogex cab sim. Starting from square one at this digital recording stuff, but I'm making headway. Since doing the track, I have experimented with miking an amp rather than the DI route, and it works out a lot better. If I had it to do over again, that's what I would change. Hey NeWeY.. How does the lipstick humbuckers sound through distortion? I have always wondered about the lipstick PU's... Thanks, FireBall |
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Post by newey on Mar 13, 2009 21:50:29 GMT -5
Fireball-
Good question. I don't really know how to answer that since I don't use a lot of distortion. And I don't own a really good distortion pedal to test it with.
Using the gain channel on my Fender amp, they're not terribly impressive. But nothing else is, either, through that gain channel. It's not a particularly usable gain. So, that doesn't tell us much either way.
They are a fairly low output pup, and they have a bright, chimey tone- at least this one does in the bridge position. I was shooting for a jangly, chimey type of sound and I definitely got it.
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 25, 2009 0:55:00 GMT -5
Is anybody still working on this? Anyway, I've updated the WiP files tonight. The only difference is the addition of an organ starting at the slow part and riding through to the end. "Wait, isn't this supposed to be GuitarNuts?" Yeah. I do have access to a world class Hammond player, but he's in Florida, and has plenty of other stuff to do. I also have a guitar>MIDI conversion system, but it doesn't work very well. I did it the hard way. I had recorded a couple takes of lead stuff, thinking I might comp them together - take the best parts of each and make one useful track. After hearing the other leads on this thing, though, I wasn't comfortable trying to fit my stuff in, until this idea struck me. I normally put the guitar, pickup selection, and amp/cabinet information in the title of a track I'm recording. I didn't for this one. Must have had a couple that night. I think it was my behringer strat, but otherwise I don't know. I ran both takes simultaneously because - you know - an organist has two hands. These got mixed together into a noise gate, then into a hefty amount of compression. Organs don't do touch sensitivity. The key is an on/off switch. The squished signal was then fed through an LPF, to cut out the higher harmonics and get it closer to just fundamentals. From there it is pitch corrected (organs don't bend or slide) and then goes into Plogue Rebuilder, where it's interpolated down to a small number of "pure" sine waves. The resultant signal got bandpassed to remove some of the artifacts of the Rebuild'ing process. These are both sub and super(?) harmonics, something like what you get out of a Ring Modulator. The bandpassed signal goes through Wow n Flutter - at very low settings - to simulate the tuning instability of a tonewheel organ which sees much more time being played than being maintained. Now, I've got my 8' (fundamental) stop. This gets a number of effects sends which go off to be pitch shifted to match other drawbar intervals, and then LPF'ed to remove some of the artifacts of the pitch shift process. I didn't use a full set of drawbars. Just the 8', 4'(octave), 2 2/3'(octave fifth), and 1 3/5' (two octaves and a third). Mixed these to taste to a new bus, which got compressed a bit. This does not really sound much like a Hammond at this point. But then I plug in MrDonald and get the thing to spinning, tuck it in gently so as not to call too much attention to it... ...and I don't think you'd know it wasn't an organ if I hadn't told you. All of the comps, gates, and filters, as well as the pitch correction plugin came from GVST. That's right, the whole thing is done in freeware (not including the DAW host). |
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Post by newey on Mar 25, 2009 18:37:12 GMT -5
Ashcatlt-
A very nice, quite subtle addition! It definitely adds some shimmer into the middle.
I'm reading- and re-reading- all that you did to get the organ sound, and it seems like a whole lot of work! But a good result in the end.
And, if no one else is working on any more, you, as Producer Plenipotentiary, can call it a wrap whenever you feel it's done. At that point, the challenge has been issued for Round 2, which can be started anytime by the next group of interested parties. (Hint, Hint!)
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Post by FireBall on Mar 26, 2009 21:58:57 GMT -5
So where does a aging guitarist hear such a updated track? ;D
FireBall
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Post by FireBall on Mar 26, 2009 22:01:29 GMT -5
Is anybody still working on this? Anyway, I've updated the WiP files tonight. The only difference is the addition of an organ starting at the slow part and riding through to the end. "Wait, isn't this supposed to be GuitarNuts?" Yeah. I do have access to a world class Hammond player, but he's in Florida, and has plenty of other stuff to do. I also have a guitar>MIDI conversion system, but it doesn't work very well. I did it the hard way. I had recorded a couple takes of lead stuff, thinking I might comp them together - take the best parts of each and make one useful track. After hearing the other leads on this thing, though, I wasn't comfortable trying to fit my stuff in, until this idea struck me. I normally put the guitar, pickup selection, and amp/cabinet information in the title of a track I'm recording. I didn't for this one. Must have had a couple that night. I think it was my behringer strat, but otherwise I don't know. I ran both takes simultaneously because - you know - an organist has two hands. These got mixed together into a noise gate, then into a hefty amount of compression. Organs don't do touch sensitivity. The key is an on/off switch. The squished signal was then fed through an LPF, to cut out the higher harmonics and get it closer to just fundamentals. From there it is pitch corrected (organs don't bend or slide) and then goes into Plogue Rebuilder, where it's interpolated down to a small number of "pure" sine waves. The resultant signal got bandpassed to remove some of the artifacts of the Rebuild'ing process. These are both sub and super(?) harmonics, something like what you get out of a Ring Modulator. The bandpassed signal goes through Wow n Flutter - at very low settings - to simulate the tuning instability of a tonewheel organ which sees much more time being played than being maintained. Now, I've got my 8' (fundamental) stop. This gets a number of effects sends which go off to be pitch shifted to match other drawbar intervals, and then LPF'ed to remove some of the artifacts of the pitch shift process. I didn't use a full set of drawbars. Just the 8', 4'(octave), 2 2/3'(octave fifth), and 1 3/5' (two octaves and a third). Mixed these to taste to a new bus, which got compressed a bit. This does not really sound much like a Hammond at this point. But then I plug in MrDonald and get the thing to spinning, tuck it in gently so as not to call too much attention to it... ...and I don't think you'd know it wasn't an organ if I hadn't told you. All of the comps, gates, and filters, as well as the pitch correction plugin came from GVST. That's right, the whole thing is done in freeware (not including the DAW host). ohhh that makes my head hurt reading that... ;D Just Kidding!! Dude, you amaze me!! |
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 26, 2009 22:47:03 GMT -5
The short answer to your question is: the first post of this thread. A slightly longer answer: It's not really "work", you know. I sit here and push buttons until it sounds right. Really, it's what I do. The idea popped into my head, and I had to try it. It worked out okay, so I kept it. |
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Post by sumgai on Mar 26, 2009 22:47:49 GMT -5
Leave it to ash to take the long way around to imitate a perfectly good Roland GR-33! ;D
sumgai
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 26, 2009 23:54:31 GMT -5
I did mention that I've got a GK-2A/GI-10 combo. The pickup, though, has been flakey since I bought it used in '98. Things have worked out to where I always had things I wanted more than to replace it when I had the budget. I did recently get a great deal on a very long 13 pin cable. Lot of good that does...
Anyway, I've read more issues of Keyboard magazine than GuitarWorld and GuitarPlayer combined. I tend to look at sound in general from the perspective of a synthesist.
Edit - I don't play keys.
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Post by FireBall on Mar 27, 2009 10:23:15 GMT -5
The short answer to your question is: the first post of this thread. A slightly longer answer: It's not really "work", you know. I sit here and push buttons until it sounds right. Really, it's what I do. The idea popped into my head, and I had to try it. It worked out okay, so I kept it. Thanks man... Hey who's got a Sax?? |
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 27, 2009 11:41:11 GMT -5
Thanks man... Hey who's got a Sax?? Well, let's see. That would start with a saw wave... But seriously, I know that a couple people around here (I think one of them's name starts with C and ends with K, then sum-body else) have actual working guitar>MIDI converters. We could have a whole horn section! How 'bout a honky-tonk piano in there, too? |
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 27, 2009 19:19:33 GMT -5
I found a free sax vsti plugin...actually not too bad with enough reverb on it...
I'd say that after 117 days we've got everyone here who's gonna play.
You're the man, Ash, so you call the day for all tracks to be in the can.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by lpf3 on Mar 27, 2009 19:55:31 GMT -5
Eeeeeeasy now , I have a Roland GR-20 - but really didn't think anyone would be interested in synth sounds . Anyway I'm working on a piano part & a sax + brass part , should be able to send something early tomorrow .  -lpf3 |
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Post by FireBall on Mar 27, 2009 21:34:33 GMT -5
...after the Sax and brass sections gets added, I want to know who can pull off adding a good looking hot chic singer with tight leather pants... whoever has that .vst... uhh PM me... LOL ;D
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Post by newey on Mar 27, 2009 21:41:55 GMT -5
I think that's the Suzy Quatro sim. ;D ;D  |
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Post by lpf3 on Mar 27, 2009 21:45:06 GMT -5
What?...... you want someone who won't help carry gear , shows up late for mic check & stomps her feet if she doesn't like the key we're in ? Cool ! ;D  ;D -lpf3 |
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Post by FireBall on Mar 27, 2009 22:00:07 GMT -5
What?...... you want someone who won't help carry gear , shows up late for mic check & stomps her feet if she doesn't like the key we're in ? Cool ! ;D ;D -lpf3 Oh, I see you've already met her... LOL |
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;D
My son told me to do it in 3rds but that was too Cheech & Chong - ish for my taste .
;D