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Post by ourclarioncall on Mar 1, 2022 20:42:41 GMT -5
If I ever get round to it , this will be an un-photoshopped 16 switcher
The holes are drilled , just tested the first section of it worked . It did … then it stopped working and I gave up .
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Post by ourclarioncall on Mar 1, 2022 20:46:47 GMT -5
Stevewf
Good luck with the wiring 🙂
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Post by stevewf on Mar 2, 2022 0:59:26 GMT -5
Errr, you did understand that the last one was a Photoshop job, yes? (I think it was done by JohnH, but I'm no longer certain of that....) But the Ultimate Utah is real, performed by our very own CheshireCat. You can find it using the Search button in the menu above. sumgai Huh? Oh, yes, of course I knew that! Ridiculous. Preposterous. Unimaginable. No, I didn't realize.  I hadn't yet gotten the nerve up to ask what each toggle was for. Now I see, the top row is for Gits and the bottom row for Shiggles. |
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Post by stevewf on Mar 2, 2022 1:00:49 GMT -5
If I ever get round to it , this will be an un-photoshopped 16 switcher The holes are drilled , just tested the first section of it worked . It did … then it stopped working and I gave up . There are some interesting sounds there! Wonder what the 16-version will do! |
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Post by stevewf on Mar 2, 2022 1:20:17 GMT -5
Hello stevewf -- I came up with another, unsolicited, wiring idea for your SHS setup. Diagram below. I note that you dropped the idea of SHOOP but are particularly keen on avoiding hu. It works like this: Positions 2, 3 and 4 are straightforward hum-cancelling parallel pairs of N+M(s), N+B and B+M(n). Tone 1 is active whenever the Neck pickup is active and Tone 2 whenever the Bridge pickup is. In positions 1 and 5, it is a little different. With the respective tone control at 10 you get the straightforward single coil. However, as you back off the tone to 9, it brings in the relevant hum-cancelling coil of the Middle pickup in a 'half-series' configuration. This will thicken up the bottom end while leaving the single coil top-end of the P90s and should also introduce some level of hum-cancellation. I thought it might hit your priorities rather nicely. Thanks!!! I'm having browser trouble with replying/posting here... |
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Post by ourclarioncall on Mar 2, 2022 10:02:37 GMT -5
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Post by stevewf on Mar 2, 2022 11:32:07 GMT -5
Now I see. Nice! How many solder joints?, I wonder. Once I made a list of the solder joints to be made, so I wouldn't miss any; it was in the aforementioned "poor LP", for a total of 114 joints inside the cavity (counting, for example, two wires onto a single lug as two joints, and also grounding of components). At the time, I thought that was a lot. That's gonna be eclipsed here! Let's see...Counting from the diagram, I see 36 per pickup (=108), plus (not pictured) the "master" diamond of switches. You'll need a therapist yourself - a physical therapist for straightening your neck after all that soldering! |
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Post by ourclarioncall on Mar 5, 2022 18:26:22 GMT -5
Now I see. Nice! How many solder joints?, I wonder. Once I made a list of the solder joints to be made, so I wouldn't miss any; it was in the aforementioned "poor LP", for a total of 114 joints inside the cavity (counting, for example, two wires onto a single lug as two joints, and also grounding of components). At the time, I thought that was a lot. That's gonna be eclipsed here! Let's see...Counting from the diagram, I see 36 per pickup (=108), plus (not pictured) the "master" diamond of switches. You'll need a therapist yourself - a physical therapist for straightening your neck after all that soldering! I need to pay someone to do it for me! Yeah there must be quite a few . It’s been quite a while since I’ve looked at it so I’ve forgotten a lot about it . Hopefully I will get around to completing the full 16 switches at some point . I’ve got no room In this house but looking to buy our first home soon and finally get a man cave of my own . |
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Post by stevewf on Apr 15, 2022 0:21:28 GMT -5
Hello stevewf -- I came up with another, unsolicited, wiring idea for your SHS setup. Diagram below. I note that you dropped the idea of SHOOP but are particularly keen on avoiding hu. It works like this: Positions 2, 3 and 4 are straightforward hum-cancelling parallel pairs of N+M(s), N+B and B+M(n). Tone 1 is active whenever the Neck pickup is active and Tone 2 whenever the Bridge pickup is. In positions 1 and 5, it is a little different. With the respective tone control at 10 you get the straightforward single coil. However, as you back off the tone to 9, it brings in the relevant hum-cancelling coil of the Middle pickup in a 'half-series' configuration. This will thicken up the bottom end while leaving the single coil top-end of the P90s and should also introduce some level of hum-cancellation. I thought it might hit your priorities rather nicely. Here you go (presuming I haven't messed it up again):  Hi again, jhng. I finally put together the time to look it over, and it's very interesting. Can you give some detail about what is "half-series"? How is it accomplished? I guess I'm asking for an author's interpretation of the schematic; it seems to take me painfully long to soak it in. I do hope to test this one, as well as the previous. While I cobble together the subject guitar, I'm also trying to put together a way to test without mounting/unmounting the pickguard. Nice if it works, but adding that project in the middle slows down everything. With that in mind, I'm refining another tweak on the original request, which I'll post here soon in hopes of help. Let the goalposts dance! |
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Post by stevewf on Apr 15, 2022 10:57:14 GMT -5
I'm still obsessing on this SHS wiring design - a Strat-formed guitar with P-90s in the bridge and neck plus a twin rail in the middle. We've seen what look to be quality solutions. Therefore, it's time to change the requirements  I do intend to test the previous suggestions, but while I prepare to do that, I'm hoping I could get ideas on how to achieve the following: 5-way: - 1 = Neck(n) only
- 2 = Neck and Middle(s)
- 3 = Neck and Bridge(s)
- 4 = Bridge and Middle(n)
- 5 = Bridge only
Add a pair of switches: Serial/Parallel and Phase. The switches may be push/pulls (preferred) or mini toggle (if push/pulls can't do the job). Each of the switches would affect positions 2, 3 and 4 of the 5-way. The phase switch, when used in positions 2&4, would also swap which Middle p/u coil is used. Example of position #2: in phase, it's Neck(n) and Middle(s); flip the Phase switch, and it becomes Neck(n) and <Middle(n)>. Note: by "<>" I mean Out-of-Phase. These pairings are chosen because they're hum-cancelling. Can this (i.e. simultaneously swap phase and swap coils) be done by adding a DPDT? I do have an S-1 switch, but I'm hoping to fit custom knobs on this guitar... Nothing special about the Series/Parallel switch, it would juxtapose whatever pair of coils is selected. Master Volume. Choice of 2 Tones or Master Tone plus Blend (a la JohnH's Strat SP or like jhng's V2 in this thread, above). Note: I usually prefer control layouts that appear "stock"; however this request allows alteration, since the pickup layout is already a departure. As for fiddly controls: if I can get to each P90 alone and both P90s in parallel fairly quickly, then the rest of it can be fiddly. Bonus#1: While in parallel mode, the phase switch would also insert a capacitor for Half-Out-of-Phase, but while in serial mode, no cap. So in Parallel, this switch chooses either PIP or PHOoP; in Series, either SIP or SOoP. Bonus#2: Rethink the whole thing using a 3-way and use a knob for fading in/out the Middle coils (still retaining the Series/Parallel_switching and Phase_switching_plus_coil_selecting). Details on Bonus#2 in yet another post coming here. |
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Post by stevewf on Apr 15, 2022 11:11:54 GMT -5
Another request for ideas on wiring the SHS I'm working on, described above.
How about with a Telecaster-style 3-way instead of the 5-way?
1 - Neck
2 - Neck and Bridge
3 - Bridge
Plus a knob that will fade in/out one of the middle p/u coils, and switching that selects which of these coils, and what phase it's in.
Plus switching for choosing Serial/Parallel.
Then, Master Vol and Master Tone.
Controls can appear non-stock if necessary.
Foreseen complications involving position#2 - using the fader can involve three coils at a time, so how to choose what gets put in serial and what gets put in parallel?
Foreseen complications overall: I have yet to find a 3-way blade switch with more than 2 poles. Needed here? Anybody find one?
Grateful thanks to all!
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Post by MattB on Apr 15, 2022 20:04:57 GMT -5
I do intend to test the previous suggestions, but while I prepare to do that, I'm hoping I could get ideas on how to achieve the following: 5-way: - 1 = Neck(n) only
- 2 = Neck and Middle(s)
- 3 = Neck and Bridge(s)
- 4 = Bridge and Middle(n)
- 5 = Bridge only
Add a pair of switches: Serial/Parallel and Phase. The switches may be push/pulls (preferred) or mini toggle (if push/pulls can't do the job). Each of the switches would affect positions 2, 3 and 4 of the 5-way. The phase switch, when used in positions 2&4, would also swap which Middle p/u coil is used. Example of position #2: in phase, it's Neck(n) and Middle(s); flip the Phase switch, and it becomes Neck(n) and <Middle(n)>. Note: by "<>" I mean Out-of-Phase. These pairings are chosen because they're hum-cancelling. Can this (i.e. simultaneously swap phase and swap coils) be done by adding a DPDT? I do have an S-1 switch, but I'm hoping to fit custom knobs on this guitar... Nothing special about the Series/Parallel switch, it would juxtapose whatever pair of coils is selected. Master Volume. Choice of 2 Tones or Master Tone plus Blend (a la JohnH's Strat SP or like jhng's V2 in this thread, above). It's getting late here and I haven't checked this as well as I should have, but I think it covers everything on the list:  The phase switch uses a 4PDT centre-on toggle. Up reverses the bridge, down reverses the middle. This lets you get all three combinations out of phase with each other using a single switch. The series/parallel switch is a 4PDT on/on. It needs 2 extra poles because otherwise in parallel mode positions 1 and 5 would short the output to ground. I can't see a way around that without adding more poles to the superswitch.
The blend pot fades out the coil closest to the neck in series mode, and is switched out of the circuit in parallel mode. |
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Post by MattB on Apr 15, 2022 20:13:40 GMT -5
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Post by MattB on Apr 15, 2022 21:28:39 GMT -5
The series/parallel switch is a 4PDT on/on. It needs 2 extra poles because otherwise in parallel mode positions 1 and 5 would short the output to ground. I can't see a way around that without adding more poles to the superswitch.
Or can I?  I think this should work, but it really needs checking properly. It would be best to get another set of eyes on it before you try wiring up either of these designs. I'll take another look tomorrow when I'm a little more awake. |
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Post by jhng on Apr 16, 2022 2:48:15 GMT -5
MattB's second diagram looks good to me, with one proviso which is that I don't fully understand how a 4PDT 'on-on-on' switch works and have not seen one. Is it just two DPDT's that work in sequence, so one switches as you go from 'up' to 'centre' and the second switches as you go from 'centre' to 'down'? If so, this should be fine. If, on the other hand, it works like two separate DPDT 'on-on-on' switches, then you will have a problem. However, in general I think this is very impressive work the way that you have integrated all the elements. The Middle pickup phase switch that also swaps coils, works in both series and parallel and only requires two poles seems particularly ingenious. Incidentally, on Steve's other questions: 4 pole, three-way blade switches are a thing and I have one. I got it here: shop.rall-online.net/Goeldo-Double-Waver-3-way-switch'Half-series', also called 'broadbucker' these days, is a configuration where you have two coils in series but one of the coils is bypassed by a capacitor. Since the capacitor lets through high frequencies but not low frequencies, the effect is that the you have a single-coil sound for the higher frequencies (since the capacitor shorts the second coil in the higher range) and a humbucker sound for the lower frequencies. I think there may also be a particular application in your case since you are particularly concerned with hum. A lot of single coil guitar hum is caused 60hz AC electrical installations in the vicinity. If you were able to choose a capacitor value that lets through frequencies over 70hz (which is below the bottom end of a regular electric guitar), then you would get the hum-cancelling effect on the 60hz hum by having the relevant Middle coil in series but leave the sound of the P90s unchanged. I'm not sure what capacitor value would be needed or whether this works or has been done before. Perhaps one of the more electrically knowledgeable contributors might have a view on this?
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Post by stevewf on Apr 16, 2022 16:30:41 GMT -5
MattB's second diagram looks good to me, with one proviso which is that I don't fully understand how a 4PDT 'on-on-on' switch works and have not seen one. Is it just two DPDT's that work in sequence, so one switches as you go from 'up' to 'centre' and the second switches as you go from 'centre' to 'down'? If so, this should be fine. If, on the other hand, it works like two separate DPDT 'on-on-on' switches, then you will have a problem. However, in general I think this is very impressive work the way that you have integrated all the elements. The Middle pickup phase switch that also swaps coils, works in both series and parallel and only requires two poles seems particularly ingenious. Incidentally, on Steve's other questions: 4 pole, three-way blade switches are a thing and I have one. I got it here: shop.rall-online.net/Goeldo-Double-Waver-3-way-switch'Half-series', also called 'broadbucker' these days, is a configuration where you have two coils in series but one of the coils is bypassed by a capacitor. Since the capacitor lets through high frequencies but not low frequencies, the effect is that the you have a single-coil sound for the higher frequencies (since the capacitor shorts the second coil in the higher range) and a humbucker sound for the lower frequencies. I think there may also be a particular application in your case since you are particularly concerned with hum. A lot of single coil guitar hum is caused 60hz AC electrical installations in the vicinity. If you were able to choose a capacitor value that lets through frequencies over 70hz (which is below the bottom end of a regular electric guitar), then you would get the hum-cancelling effect on the 60hz hum by having the relevant Middle coil in series but leave the sound of the P90s unchanged. I'm not sure what capacitor value would be needed or whether this works or has been done before. Perhaps one of the more electrically knowledgeable contributors might have a view on this? Wow and wow, again, Nutz! I like MattB's solution, especially with a single DPDT handling the series/parallel; that can go under a pot, if desired. I'm definitely adding this to the testing queue. As far as I can figure, the phase switch will have to be either a toggle or a rotary. Since I'd be reluctant lose one of those beautiful controls by putting a rotary in its place, the mini toggle seems best. Thanks also to jhng for explaining half-series. Very interesting. And a European source for 4P3T blades, now we have both sides of the Atlantic. As for "centre on" 2-throw switches, yes, that's my understanding. Also called "on-on-on". Handle up=four poles down; Handle center=two poles up, two poles down (the same pairings, always); handle down=four poles up. jhng, I'll need some elaboration to understand using that capacitor for hum reduction. Is it the same capacitor that would be used in half-series? Possible to whip together an example schematic? |
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Post by MattB on Apr 16, 2022 17:12:35 GMT -5
MattB's second diagram looks good to me, with one proviso which is that I don't fully understand how a 4PDT 'on-on-on' switch works and have not seen one. Is it just two DPDT's that work in sequence, so one switches as you go from 'up' to 'centre' and the second switches as you go from 'centre' to 'down'? If so, this should be fine. If, on the other hand, it works like two separate DPDT 'on-on-on' switches, then you will have a problem. Thanks for taking the time to look at it. Here's a diagram showning a 4PDT centre-on.  As far as I can figure, the phase switch will have to be either a toggle or a rotary. Since I'd be reluctant lose one of those beautiful controls by putting a rotary in its place, the mini toggle seems best. An alternative would be to use two DPDT switches for phase, one for each pickup. That would let you use push-pulls instead of a toggle. (EDIT: A 4P3T slide switch would also work) jhng, I'll need some elaboration to understand using that capacitor for hum reduction. Is it the same capacitor that would be used in half-series? Possible to whip together an example schematic? This article has some more information: www.premierguitar.com/diy/mod-garage/fender-s-1-switch-wiringI should point out that Premier Guitar isn't always a reliable source of information, but this particular article seems ok. |
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Post by newey on Apr 16, 2022 18:02:01 GMT -5
Here's a diagram showning a 4PDT centre-on. MattB is correct, all 4PDT On-On-On switches work the same way, with the exception of the oddball Kent Armtrong 4PDT (which isn't a center on switch anyway.) From Chris K's Fun with Toggles and Push/Pull switches |
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Post by stevewf on Apr 17, 2022 19:58:50 GMT -5
Yes, of course. Intriguing, actually. But the only such slider I found quickly is 25.4mm wide under the pickguard. Know of a more compact one? If not, a mini toggle is fine here. BTW, isn't it more accurately/precisely "4P2T3X1C0M"? (Four pole, two throw, three position, on in center, no momentary)  Oh boy! In addition to the present project, this article is enough to get me to reopen an older, "finished" project that could stand to gain from this! It's got a single coil in the neck and a four-wire HB in the bridge. Before that, though, I want to take some time to gain more familiarity with the offered schematics with an eye on this. Meanwhile, the overall guitar project does plod along. I've gotten the pickups under the strings, with 6-foot (shielded!) leads outside of the guitar to the bench and to a mini patch board (in a Faraday box!). Next, to patch those leads to the controls using micro probes... This might end up being tedious, or too tiny for the probes. Let's see how I hold up. One holdup I foresee is the pickguard, or rather, the Indio's neck width. To use 3rd party MIM-size pickguards, I'd have to widen their neck pocket (and redrill the mounting holes in the body). Weird. Or I could decide to Forever-Mod the factory pickguard, risking a Forever-Screwup, but saving work. Slowly, but onward. |
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Post by newey on Apr 17, 2022 22:10:13 GMT -5
I don't know how involved you want to get, but there are folks who will make you a custom pickguard from a tracing. I have no idea cost-wise what that sort of thing might be, but if you don't want to compromise . . .
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Post by MattB on Apr 17, 2022 22:14:02 GMT -5
Yes, of course. Intriguing, actually. But the only such slider I found quickly is 25.4mm wide under the pickguard. Know of a more compact one? If not, a mini toggle is fine here. BTW, isn't it more accurately/precisely "4P2T3X1C0M"? (Four pole, two throw, three position, on in center, no momentary)  There are (at least) two different kind of slide switches. The one I linked to is a true 4P3T, with a common and three individual pins for each pole. 
I think you're talking about the second kind of slide switch, as described in this post:
Either kind could work here, but the first kind are usually a lot smaller, because they have tiny PC pins instead of solder lugs.
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Post by stevewf on Apr 18, 2022 1:39:11 GMT -5
I don't know how involved you want to get, but there are folks who will make you a custom pickguard from a tracing. I have no idea cost-wise what that sort of thing might be, but if you don't want to compromise . . . Thanks, newey. This project's signature has an overall "cheap-butt" vibe, so I think that rather than further chasing the $129 for the guitar, I'll probably be using the Dremel. |
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Post by stevewf on Apr 19, 2022 21:32:11 GMT -5
Yes, of course. Intriguing, actually. But the only such slider I found quickly is 25.4mm wide under the pickguard. Know of a more compact one? If not, a mini toggle is fine here. BTW, isn't it more accurately/precisely "4P2T3X1C0M"? (Four pole, two throw, three position, on in center, no momentary) There are (at least) two different kind of slide switches. The one I linked to is a true 4P3T, with a common and three individual pins for each pole. Aha, yes, I see. Might have to order a batch just to have 'em ready, they're so inexpensive and compact. Going back to MattB's second schematic, above: If I wanted to omit the phase switching on the Bridge coil, it looks like I could use a 2P2T instead of the 4-pole switch and still be able to swap phase and swap coil of the Middle pickup. If I've got it right, I could put the phase switch under a pot, along with the series/parallel under another. Am I wrong there? |
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Post by newey on Apr 20, 2022 5:10:08 GMT -5
If I wanted to omit the phase switching on the Bridge coil, it looks like I could use a 2P2T instead of the 4-pole switch and still be able to swap phase and swap coil of the Middle pickup. If I've got it right, I could put the phase switch under a pot, along with the series/parallel under another. Am I wrong there? That's right. You would just wire the 2 poles MattB has labeled as SW-1"c" and "d". |
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Post by stevewf on Apr 20, 2022 18:55:04 GMT -5
'Half-series', also called 'broadbucker' these days, is a configuration where you have two coils in series but one of the coils is bypassed by a capacitor. Since the capacitor lets through high frequencies but not low frequencies, the effect is that the you have a single-coil sound for the higher frequencies (since the capacitor shorts the second coil in the higher range) and a humbucker sound for the lower frequencies. After soaking my brain in it, think I've managed to understand "Broadbucker". Question: if we can do it in serial, why not in parallel? Here's a set of drawings that show my brain's path:  [Edit: and now, only after posting  , do I see that the parallel setup cannot be halved like this; the effect is the same as a tone control (fixed or variable). Nevertheless, I'll leave the post below. And, still, our question stands about what value cap to use for hum-cancelling in half-series.]
I'm trying to apply the "Half-" thing to a parallel pair of coils. I start by needing confirmation: the "Half-" in this sense means one of the coils is shorted via a capacitor (like the top-left figure). Am I correct? 'Cause if not, down goes the whole shebang. But if I am getting it right please walk with me to pinpoint any missteps I may be making.
Starting at the top-left: a "half-series" pair, if I'm getting it right. I included a resistor there, though I haven't seen any designs with one, but who knows? We could always imagine a zero-ohm resistor if we wish.
Next drawing downward, I propose a similar scheme with a pair of coils in parallel: "Half-Parallel". It's similar in that it features one of the coils being shorted via a capacitor.
Bottom row is a switching scheme to go from half-series to half-parallel.
The right-side column has the same circuits but with a variable resistor instead of a fixed one.
I'm not great at a-priori designing; these drawings, and the premises under with they operate (mine) need checking!.
I now grasp the theory that a half-series (and perhaps by extension, half-parallel) set can be used primarily to cancel hum. Yes, I find this interesting. Further, I grasp that there's frequency range that's of particular concern: between mains cycle (50/60 Hz) and bottom of guitar frequency (somewhere faster than 70Hz). Then, choosing the right value capacitor in a "half-" setting could "let through" (i.e. ground out) almost everything, leaving only the lows of one coil. The signal from that partially shorted coil thereby refrains from interfering with the highs of the other coil, while continuing it job of cancelling the mains hum by virtue of keeping its lows in the signal. Two coils: from one we get hum, highs and everything; from the other we get anti-hum only. Please also steer me straight if I'm not getting it!
And then, I second jhng's question: does anybody know what value (range) capacitor to use for anti-hum in this manner? I used to know how to calculate the "cutoff frequency", but I forgot!
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Post by stevewf on Aug 14, 2022 14:49:31 GMT -5
Development creeps along... I've managed to test both jhng's and MattB's offerings on the guitar. I used the Ash Lab in its various forms of existence. Here's a rare photo that I stopped to take: 
Tada!: The Ash Lab per MattB's drawing. It takes me a while to do this - about 45 mins - because I have to interpret the schematic and realize it in Ash-Lab-only wiring. I make an intermediate diagram by coloring the schematic's wires, then using the same color wires for the mock-up; that way, I can check my work more easily. Without color-coding, it all becomes spaghetti, even for the guy who patched it all. I also managed to wire jhng's drawing, using a previous version of the Ash Lab, a prototype. The thing kept falling apart while I attempted to use it, so it took me a few hours. I barely managed to test it because of the prototype's flakiness. I'll rewire it on the present version, because it was pretty interesting and did stuff that I hadn't heard before (like half-serial aka broadbucker in general, and from there, "Spin-a-Broadbuck"). The original request is still being thrown out and replaced, er, "refined" so keep your pens and computers warmed up, please! |
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Post by stevewf on Sept 1, 2022 11:35:53 GMT -5
OK, so I've put the guitar together, finally. Well, finally as in "at last:, not as in "final version". Here's what the controls look like:  And here's a hybrid schematic/diagram of its innards:  Overview: The neck and bridge pickups are Wilkinson "M-series" P-90s. They are a humbucking pair. The Neck magnet is North and the Bridge's is South. The middle pickup is a Guitar Fetish "Li'l Killer" single-sized humbucker. The coil nearest to the Neck pickup has a South magnet. The 5-way selector does this: 1=Bridge 2=Bridge and Middle 3=Bridge and Neck 4=Neck and Middle 5=Neck The Series/Parallel slider has effect only when the 5-way is in position #2,#3 or #4. The Middle Coil Selector (phase) slider chooses which coil of the middle pickup to activate. The coils are wired so that they're opposite phase from one another. The inactive coil is removed from the circuit. When in Parallel and Out-of-Phase modes, a PHOop capacitor is placed in series with the Middle coil (except see Bug#2, below) All of the two-coil combinations are hum-cancelling, so, for example, Position#4 while In-phase gives [NeckN] and [MidS]; sliding the switch to Out-of-Phase gives [NeckN] and [-MidN]. The Master Volume uses the design from JohnH's ClearTone Volume Control ( discussion here). I ran out of .68nF caps, though, so for now it has a .5nF cap. The Master Tone uses a 22nF cap, wired "before" the volume pot. The Parallel Fader uses a 1MΩ, audio curve. *Actually, right now, there is no fader there, as I ran out of dual gang pot suitable for modding to 1MΩ wafers. New pots on order; for now there's a wire soldered right across the lugs. I like that it adds no load to the circuit. The Series Fader also has a A1MΩ wafer, but I think it would do better with a Reverse-audio wafer, as all the delta occurs from 3-0. When the new pot gets here, I'll do that too. I chose 1MΩ pots for those in order to avoid signal loss at "10". In series mode, I felt this was important, for avoiding dullness. I suppose I could sacrificed the Parallel fader and instead used the other gang for a treble bleed... Each of those faders will ground the Neck or Bridge coil as the pot's turned toward Zero, leaving the Middle coil active. I like it overall. It's very versatile. And, aside from the wiring, I've got the setup working nicely, so it's nice to play despite being based on a $129 Monoprice guitar. It does have some serious bugs, though. Bug#1: The Phase slider does not simply choose In-Phase or Out-of-Phase. Rather, it chooses which Middle coil is active. Bearing in mind that the MidN is always OoP with the NeckN, means that changing the 5-way between #2 and #4 also changes the phase combo. Example: I start with #4=Neck/Middle, Parallel, MidS=In-phase); when I change the 5-way to#2, I get Bridge/Middle,Parallel,MidS=Out-of-phase. I'd prefer to have the phase be tied to the slider (rather than the coil selection tied to the slider), but I couldn't design around it without throwing another pair of poles onto the 5-way. There I balked. Bug#2: I couldn't get the PHOop capacitor in the circuit with both #2 and #4 positions. So Position#2, Out-of-Phase, Parallel is [-BridgeS] and [MidS] full out of [phase, which sounds thin, nasal and low-output. I didn't see a way around it without throwing two more poles at the phase slider or at the 5-way. Give that, I had to choose which P-90 got PHOoP and which got POoP; Neck got the fuller sound this time. So... whenever I want a thin, nasal, low-output sound, here I have it. Other challenges: The pickguard needed customization. I found pickguards with twin soapbox holes (stratosphereparts.com) and had to cut the hole for the middle pickup. Naturally, I also had to cut hoes for the slid switches. This is the first time I've modded the pickguard holes. It's hard to do because you're constrained by the location of the other controls and of the cavity. This means that a second try (...third, etc?) will be tedious. The slider switches are tiny, and they have tiny PCB pins, some of which have three wires soldered to them. I chose them anyway, because of the space constraints. I think I melted the plastic commuter inside them a little, but they still work. BTW, they are 4P2T switches, so there's an unused pole on each (a GN2 sin, I know!). I'm working on a way to make that soldering easier for next times. Uses breadboard pins, the female ones, and also wires with insulation that resists melting/shrinking (silicone). It's hard to find small-gauge, solid copper, silicone-insulated hookup wire. More pics later. Hurrying now. |
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Post by stevewf on Nov 10, 2022 16:33:51 GMT -5
Thanks again for that schematic, MattB. I wonder if there's a way -- and if you'd be willing -- to share the easyeda file. I'd like to try using that program, but I don't find all the nice components you've already put in that drawing (like pickup coils and five-way switches). |
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Post by stevewf on Nov 11, 2022 12:13:17 GMT -5
I mentioned above that I wired up the guitar in question, warts and all. This post is to describe more carefully one of those warts, in order to set up my forthcoming request for help. The problem in question has to do with the phase switch. Its function changes, depending on the position of the 5-way selector switch. I don't want that function to change, but it does. Here's what I mean, with photos below to help explain. - When the 5-way is in position#2 (Bridge and Middle), the two coils are in phase when the Phase switch is down (first photo).
- When the 5-way is in position#4 (Neck and Middle), the two coils are out of phase when the Phase switch is down (second photo).
- When the 5-way is in position#4 (Neck and Middle), the two coils are in phase when the Phase switch is up (third photo).
The undesired result is that moving the selector between #2 and #4 also toggles whether the coils are in phase. What I want instead is that the phase be fixed to the Phase switch, so that Up should always mean In Phase, and Down should always mean Out of Phase. First Photo:  Above: Selector=Position#2, PhaseSwitch=Down; Result=In Phase Second Photo:  Above: Selector=Position#4, PhaseSwitch=Down; Result=Out of Phase So, changing the selector also undesirably changes the phasing. Third Photo:  Above: Selector=Position#4, PhaseSwitch=Up; Result=In Phase Moving the selector, I have to flip the phase switch if I want to keep the same phasing. Not what I want. I intend to start a new thread about this guitar to ask for help, because I now have new switch components that might change the game (i.e. a 6P5T selector switch and some 4P2T subminiature toggles), and yet I haven't managed to cook up a winning scheme. The new thread will reference this post/thread. |
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Post by newey on Nov 11, 2022 13:20:38 GMT -5
What happens when both are Up? Is that the "half out of phase" with the cap?
Also, I'm not exactly clear on which of the several diagrams in this thread you used in the end. Without knowing the switching, just a guess, do the 2 switches select different coils of the middle for the out of phase? That may have been done to keep hum cancellation for both in-phase and out-of-phase, not sure.
If what is wanted is to not have the phase affected by the 5-way switch, you could just wire a phase switch across the middle pickup before the 5-way switch, before any other switching. This would eliminate the need for on of the slide switches, you could use the second slider for something else.
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, do I see that the parallel setup cannot be halved like this; the effect is the same as a tone control (fixed or variable).