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Post by dannyhill on Jun 29, 2012 3:19:01 GMT -5
Doh! I had the tamer cap in the wrong place. 16 hours of my life never to be seen again All is great, and quieter than before, I separated shielding from ground up to the jack. Thanks all!
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Post by dannyhill on Jun 28, 2012 7:45:11 GMT -5
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Post by dannyhill on Jun 28, 2012 3:50:17 GMT -5
Spoke too soon! Grrr. Where is the bridge hot touching the ground leaving the poles hot and the B+M position non-hum cancelling. It also does this when I pull the 4PDT (for N+M), which suggests that its either on the 4PDT (bridge pup wire side) OR on the neck tone p/p. Might be worth checking no shorting on the middle tone p/p too. I swapped out the volume and neck tone p/p last night and replaced some wires. Still there! Grrrr. Time for the multimeter! If only one probe wasn't broken I could be more certain of its readings.
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Post by dannyhill on Jun 25, 2012 5:38:09 GMT -5
Well, I did it! Managed to fit in two 4PDTs along with the 3 p/ps and 4 way. What a TIGHT fit! Now have the Strat Lovers Strat: Bridge in series on volume p/p Bridge out of phase on neck tone p/p Add neck in parallel on middle tone p/p
One 4PDT swaps the bridge pup wires for the neck pup wires thereby reversing the 'direction' of the 5 way to allow NXM, -NxM, NXM+B, -NxM+B etc
The other 4PDT is an overkill (just used one side), 0.001uF cap between middle lug of volume pot and hot on jack as a strangle switch. I swapped the 0.033 for the archtypical sounding 0.047uF cap.
Took advantage to swap the nasty plastic stock nut for a bone one.
Just need to sort out why centre of pickguard is slightly raised, cuts out or becmes noisy when I push it down. Probably some electrics around the volume pot or less likely the spring under the treble side of the middle pickup as it is flush with the pickguard.
Check setup, new strings and noodle off into the sunset! Thanks all for your advice.
DH
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Post by dannyhill on Jun 23, 2012 2:49:05 GMT -5
Thanks reTrEaD! You know, it's almost as if I didn't understand how stacks order, bumps and forums work!?! Well now I do With regards to ground loops in the wiring (not the shielding), I'm more worried about Eddy currents being induced in the loops, and moreover pickup AM signal (a ground loop is an antenna). I therefore aim to have all of my guitars shielding connect at only ONE point to the -ve/ground 'bus', ideally where the -ve wire from the jack connects, or directly to the jack. I think I will snip the wire under my bridge pup and add an extra wire either to the copper shielding or straight to my grounding point for all shielding on the tele plate. Now, I'm probably just being @n@l, but this page made sense: www.mylespaul.com/forums/tonefreaks/122705-more-grounding-misconceptions.htmlThanks again! DH
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Post by dannyhill on Jun 22, 2012 3:45:10 GMT -5
Wow! Thanks guys for all the input. I'm sorry if I have not picked up on the debunking of ground loops here. Elsewhere on the web, people do seem to be concerned about including Deaf Eddie. newey: I can see your point about two shielding paths to ground not making a ground loop as they carry no signal, but if my tele bridge pup plate has the shielding lug hard wired to the -ve end of the coil (standard on Fender Teles) Then it IS in the signal path, as this is AC. Can anyone make a more technical explanation? Not that I'm cynical or anything :-) Thanks again, DH
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Post by dannyhill on Jun 21, 2012 12:04:07 GMT -5
What a friendly welcome! I bumped it cause I understood that otherwise it might be days or weeks until it got read being an old thread. Sorry about that. Let's try again.
LPF3 was discussing an issue with his pickups and I noticed in his photo that he ALSO had what I think I have and that is a ground loop.
In his photo: The bridge pickup plate is connected conductively to the ground lug of the jack via both screws/bridge plate/copper/ground wire route AND via the green wire/copper/ground wire route.
(I can't see the ground wire but I assume it is there somewhere.)
In my case I have just one wire conecting the bridge pickup plate and -ve on the pickup to ground and the bare wire under the bridge (connecting via screws to the bridge plate of the pup) to ground. That is factory wiring by Fender!
I.e. Is the green wire in the photo even needed?
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Post by dannyhill on Jun 21, 2012 9:10:06 GMT -5
BUMP
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Post by dannyhill on Jun 21, 2012 9:09:48 GMT -5
I have a question here that has been bugging me for a while. I have something similar here, it's this: The bridge pickup plate is connected conductively to the ground lug of the jack via both screws/bridge plate/copper/ground wire and green wire/copper/ground wire. I can't see the ground wire but I assume it is there somewhere. Isn't this a ground loop? In my case I have just one wire conecting the bridge pickup plate and -ve on the pickup to ground and the bare wire under the bridge (connecting via screws to the bridge plate of the pup) to ground. That is factory wiring by Fender. Is that green wire even needed?
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Post by dannyhill on May 29, 2012 7:43:47 GMT -5
Hi all,
Here's a crazy idea in order to get NXM, -NxM, -N+M....:
Can I add two DPDTs: One to switch between bridge and neck inputs to the series and phase circuits? Another to switch between neck and bridge inputs on lug one of stage 2 and lug one of stage 1. I don't know if its possible two switch both switches at once in a 4PDT??? Don't think it makes sense to have just or the other switched. When both are switched, you can change the phase of the neck pup (wrt to either of the other two) using the p/p on the neck tone pot and/or add any pup combination (as done before for the bridge) in series with the p/p on the neck pup. You would also be able to add the bridge in parallel (as done before for the neck) with any pup combination.
The only (?) weird thing would be that pup selection from the 5 way would be reversed, going from n/n+m/m/b+n/b to b/b+m/m/m+n/n.
Without the resistor switching that would result in 5 switches. Plus one for a strangle switch on the + output. Or have I lost it? Cheers,
DH
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Post by dannyhill on May 25, 2012 15:51:36 GMT -5
Hi Newey,
Its the same as the wiring scheme on page 2 of this thread, except I have fixed caps for parallel and series positions and not a spdt to choose between two for each. For the table, I will see if I can upload another later but: V=series switch in/out =off/on Neck T = Bridge phase switch in/out=in/out Middle T = Neck in parallel in/out=out of/in the circuit
Copy that about the tone and sweet spots. But I was referring to a regular strat with two tones and three single coils. A 0.033 will not remain scooped when you roll of the tone as highs drop, as per usual, but some high mids creep in thr futher you roll off leaving no 'gap' between the two bands. IMHO. I think when I add the neck phase I will add a strangle switch and change the cap for a 0.047
Thanks anyways! Incidentally, talking about HBs. In an 'ideal world', if I could switch between caps, wouuld this be useful for switching between HB and HB coils in parallel or a single HB coil? Or do single HB coils still have some mid range hump? Thanks as ever!
D
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Post by dannyhill on May 23, 2012 15:21:07 GMT -5
Never did get a reply for someone to check my truth table. Boo-hoo, sob sob. Incidentally, why the 0.033uF cap? Shouldn't it be a 0.047uF for single coils, so when it is rolled off it keeps its scooped sound? 0.033 and smaller let high mids through which means with a single coil - mud, right? Mind you I read someone considered 0.022 on a tele, stock. What a honk! D
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Post by dannyhill on Apr 18, 2012 4:01:51 GMT -5
Hi Newey, OK, here is where I am confused, and wanted D2o to check out my table. If I pull out my volume pot to add the bridge in series, select the neck position AND pull out the middle tone pot to add the neck in parallel, what on earth do I get? My guess was BXN. But probably Im wrong. If not, then adding a phase switch for neck will then put these two out of phase, and hum cancelling. I added the neck on switch exactly how it features in D2o's post. But don't worry, the dead positions dont bother me. Too bad about D2o not being on here often. JohnH - It was the neck phase I was thinking of switching not the middle. Cheers, D
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Post by dannyhill on Apr 17, 2012 10:32:52 GMT -5
Hi Re-tread,
Not really read your comment properly until now. I get what you say about putting phase switch only on neck or bridge as although ADDING a neck phase will allow N+M or NXM out of phase, unlike B+N or BXN, these two new 'positions' will be non-noise cancelling like two others that we already have: B+M or BxM out of phase? For sure, I would keep B+N and BXN out of phase but why not add some more positions? Cheers,
Daniel
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Post by dannyhill on Mar 25, 2012 16:11:15 GMT -5
Hi D2o, Can you check my 'truth table'? Its for the strat lovers strat with added switch for adding neck in parallel with whatever combination you are in. Is it what you are hearing? Thanks! D
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Post by dannyhill on Mar 24, 2012 4:14:54 GMT -5
Dear John and Re-tread,
Thanks for the input. Sorry not replied so far, been away. I think perhaps that my message wasn't clear. I wasn't suggesting replacing the phase switching on the bridge with phase switching on the middle, but adding EXTRA phase switching, this time on the middle, or I guess the neck could also be used. I was suggesting this as with the switch for putting the neck in parallel in any position (which I have added and I guess it also works in serial positon, i.e. serial pups in parallel with neck?) I can get neck and middle in parallel and so it would be nice to be able to put them out of phase.
I suggested therefore putting the bridge out of phase pull on the middle tone pot and the neck out of phase on the neck tone pot. I would then need to add a switch somewhere to add/remove neck in parallel with current switching.
I guess it makes no difference if I out of phase middle or neck with another although middle pup is RWRP. Cheers,
Danny
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Post by dannyhill on Mar 9, 2012 19:16:23 GMT -5
Looks good John, look forward to trying that. Meanwhile, another mad thought. Any chance that neck phase change can be put on the middle tone pot? That way can get out of phase between neck and middle. I would then add a switch for adding neck in parallel. Cheers,
DH
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Post by dannyhill on Mar 8, 2012 4:38:05 GMT -5
Hi John,
Thanks for that! And thanks Newey for replying to my message. I know it was frustrating but I learnt so much from you last year.
DH
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Post by dannyhill on Mar 7, 2012 7:14:07 GMT -5
BUMP
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Post by dannyhill on Mar 5, 2012 5:47:51 GMT -5
Hi guys,
I made this circuit up as is as posted by D2O, expcet I used a third pushpull instead of a switch. Save for a scratchy pot and placing the bridge -ve in the wrong place I got it right the first time around. Many thanks to Newey and JohnH for babysitting my first mod a few months back! I think I've upped to 'intermediate solder flinger', although 3 wire solders to DPDT lugs are still 'challenging'.
As advised by Deaf Eddie on two other builds, I have put a small cap between pups instead of a jumper wire to knock out some fatness in serial positons. Just wondering where I would put them in this build? I'm thinking, the light blue wire between upper left lug of the DPDT on the neck tone pot and the lower right lug of the DPDT on the volume pot. Right? Thats if I can fit anymore bits in the cavity. Why do they make them so small? ;D Thanks as ever in advance,
DH
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 6, 2011 8:16:34 GMT -5
Hi roadtonever,
Its better than that. My current pots were actually standard 3/8" or 9mm. The ones I tried to fit were advertised as the same, I measured them, and they were half that. Refund and new order. Doh!
D
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 3, 2011 20:38:13 GMT -5
Hi,
What about putting a 'full size' 1MEG vol pot instead?
D
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 3, 2011 20:15:26 GMT -5
Finally! Got the tele mod working. Thanks everyone. 1MEG pot threads were too short though for the V100 I guess I need to remove some wood or hunt for long thread 1MEG pots, do they even exist? Start the Strat lover's strat tomorrow! D
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 2, 2011 13:03:26 GMT -5
Hi asmith, Thanks for the electronics lessons. I'm always up for buying more parts although I have gone overboard buying 5 guitars this year to complement the one I have had for 15 years. Mine you they were all economic, until I started modding The varitone in the Aria? I don't know how it is wired but I do know that it works for neck, bridge and both together. It was tough enough just swapping the pots. Fortunately I had just taken up fishing, if you know what I mean This one will be the last mod. This w/end I plan to swap out the switch and pots on the LP Deluxe copy (V100) and finish that damn Tele mod that Newey and I have been going crazy over. Circuit looks good! Any idea for the Tele custom II (twin P90s, 2+2 pots) wiring? Hometime.....
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 2, 2011 4:58:24 GMT -5
Wow, what response!
Let me see. Retread: Yep 2 and 2. I prefer log pots, as that is what I have and they seem to give a better, if not so easily controlable, range of sounds. Besides I don't play with both pups combined much.
asmith: I have the varitone in the circuit, which I guess just consists of switching across different capacitors instead of a fixed one across the volume pot? How would I put it in series? I'm interested in adding it to the circuit on the link you sent. That was the very same wiring I had already seen and so had in mind.
Separate to this I have other mods planned/underway:
Squier Tele custom II - I would like to get hold of a circuit for including series/parallel switch and phase change. I guess you will probably know it has 2 P90s, noise cancelling in the middle, 2 + 2 vol and tone control. Was thinking of using 500k P/P. Cap values?
Vintage V100WR - I'm fairly sure that the mini HBs are only two wire, which threw my JP wiring plans out of the window. So instead I thought about putting some 1MEG pots, gotta use these somewhere, to brighten the sound. Opinions? Cap values?
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Post by dannyhill on Dec 1, 2011 9:09:02 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I'm considering a new guitar build Its an Aria Pro II TA61, sort like a Gibby ES355 complete with Bigsby and varitone, with stocks HBs swapped out for 4 lead GFS Memphis HBs. I would like to get a lot of tone variety out of it - split/series-parallel/phase a la Jimmy Page wiring although its not a hot PUP. At the same time, I wanted a real icepick/snappy sound which you get on shortscales like Jaguars. OK, so its 24 3/4" scale and not 24" but its the shortest I have. Now, Ideally I would 1MEG Ohm LOG DPDTs pots (dont want to put switches/drill etc). But can I find any, that have split/gnarled shafts? Nope. So it looks like regular 1M LOG Pots or 500k LOG DPDTs for JP switching? What would you do?
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Post by dannyhill on Nov 29, 2011 5:47:19 GMT -5
OK, so another 4 steps forwards, 3 back. Removing the cavity copper that contacts the guard across the two pieces of foil on the guard didnt seem to help. After I had to go through the red wires again to fix a few bad contacts I taped it all down and back on again. This time I noticed that the cut outs (neck in serial/middle and neck in middle) occur ONLY when the part of the guard over the control cavity makes contact AND the guard over the pup cavities (maybe just the neck cavity part) makes contact. If one was lifted a few mm or the other, no problem, except the neck was noisy when I lifted that part as it it has no pup cover and no grounding as such. So its obviously not a short from a wire due to flexing when putting guard on. So what is going on? Being methodical we really need to ask what is going on in the circuit when the series/middle position or neck position are chosen that does not happen in any of the others? Newey? From your text you said: "The tone pot is a last-minute addition. It has no effect when 'bridge only' is selected, so you can go straight to a solo position with no lost highs. In the 'neck only' and 'neck parallel with bridge' it acts as a master tone, and in the series setting it acts only on the neck pickup, whilst also allowing highs from the bridge pickup to bleed through." I notice that there is some synergy between the neck and parallel positions. Could it be that with the P/P pulled out I am going from serial to parallel and not parallel to serial? What difference would I hear with and without strings on? What would happen if I swap the neck pup wires around? Anyway unless there is a problem elsewhere which only become apparent when shielding comes together which in itself is correctly done, I can always try the two ideas from yesterday: (2) I copper taped the neck cavity several months back and now it has oxidised. In fact, I'm not sure it makes a good ohmic contact with the rest of the copper which runs through to the bridge pup cavity and into the control cavity. Might be worth soldering a few of the joints? (3) I might remove the tape around the holes in the cavity where the screws from the neck pup enter to make sure it really is floating. I have in mind when I get this all sorted out to suspend this from the guard by drilling a couple of holes for the bolts once I'm confident about everything working 100%. Cheers, Daniel
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Post by dannyhill on Nov 28, 2011 11:26:47 GMT -5
"3) I might remove the tape around the holes in the cavity where the screws from the neck pup enter to make sure it really is floating."
"I don't know what you mean by this. Is this where you are using the HB sized single? If so, have you ensured that the cover of that pup is not tied to ground (that is, if it has a separate shield, the shield should be tied to the cover, but not the signal ground)?"
The neck pup is a single coil sized strat pup, no ground plate. It had no ground connection for jumper connection to the black ("ground") lead. The bobbin is resin so there should be no path to the cavity copper foil it is screwed in via the screws.
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Post by dannyhill on Nov 28, 2011 4:56:01 GMT -5
Hi Newey,
Actually I'm not using HBs. I have one strat PUP w/out shielding (2 wires + and -) and one HB sized single coil with shielding (+ and -/shielding).
What I will try tonight: Lift the guard, see if all positions come back to life.
(a) If they do then it is probably that copper cavity lip bridging the control guard foil area and the bridge pup foil area. So then remove that copper, screw the guard back down again and see what happens. (i) if Ok, then job's a good'un. (ii) if no, then maybe its something shorting against the cavity copper or guard Al foil when I screw the guard down (switch, bolts that hold bridge pup to guard?). But this would be one heck of a coincidence, giving the same syptoms as when there was continuity across the whole of the pickguard (incidentally, was the problem here a ground loop or the fat bridge pup casing looking like a better ground than the vol pot with its connection to the jack? I did seem to get intermittent problems before I separated the two Al foil zones on the guard, like as if charge was accumulating somewhere before discharged. Or maybe the ground wire is poor from the bridge pup and so needs to rely on contact with the Al foil?).
(b) If not then perhaps I broke a connection pushing the guard back down.
A few final things: (1) I noticed where the copper contacts the Al foil on the pickguard that I got galvanic corrosion. Apparently I should apply solder there to avoid that. Currently its messy (green dust) but doesnt affect resistance of contact. (2) I copper taped the neck cavity several months back and now it has oxidised. In fact, I'm not sure it makes a good ohmic contact with the rest of the copper which runs through to the bridge pup cavity and into the control cavity. Might be worth soldering a few of the joints? (3) I might remove the tape around the holes in the cavity where the screws from the neck pup enter to make sure it really is floating. I have in mind when I get this all sorted out to suspend this from the guard by drilling a couple of holes for the bolts once I'm confident about everything working 100%. Cheers,
D
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Post by dannyhill on Nov 27, 2011 20:19:09 GMT -5
It did stop. So I scraped away and foil between the switch/pots and bridge PUP, and it all roared back into life!
Screwed everything back on and .... blast (back to no neck in serial nor neck position)! Must be some copper tape around the rim joining the two pieces of foil conductively? Or maybe its the continuity of the copper foil down inside the cavities of the controls and the pup? At least I now the know the likely suspects for cutouts when I remove the guard again to strip away copper foil in strategic places. Please think about it for me, my brain is fried. Bed.... Another day......
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