Request HSS in search of help with a challenge

[psiloguitarensis]

sumgai thanks for that awesome lesson i do copy alot of the info into a notepad so thank you 
also i notice noone said anything about needing 2 caps one for hb one for n/m coils so im going to assume that aint no issue since tone and volume are 500k?

[newey]

Dec 2, 2021 13:50:21 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

also i notice noone said anything about needing 2 caps one for hb one for n/m coils so im going to assume that aint no issue since tone and volume are 500k?

Apples and oranges, psi. Don't confuse pot values with tone control capacitors.

Whether one has a tone cap at one value or another only affects the frequency curve as you turn the tone control down. With the tone control at "10", you would be unlikely to hear any difference in cap values as the cap is effectively out of the circuit at that point. You can consult JohnH's extensive discussion of tone controls to see, graphically, those differences.

The resistance value of a pot does change the tone somewhat, even at "10"- unless it is a "no-load" type of potentiomenter. But having 2 500K pots (V and T) for single coils isn't "wrong" or anything, it's fine. If it's a bit too bright, just dial the tone control back a notch or two.

As we have said many times, you can always reduce excessively bright tone, but if it's dark to start with, you can't make it brighter. I have a Strat-type guitar with a single HB, a very low output type which is already brighter than most HBs. I put a 1MΩ Vol pot in it with a 500K Tone pot. It is VERY bright sounding, but I just usually play it with the tone at about 8 and it sounds just fine.

[psiloguitarensis]

ok ok see i thought you had to use caps on a pickup help control tone. so i cant make my neck and mid brighter unless i rewrap them then huh?

if thats case im going tone kraft an order bobbin and magnet set i want and some 43awg wire and redo them after christmas.

[jhng]

Dec 2, 2021 13:50:21 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

sumgai thanks for that awesome lesson i do copy alot of the info into a notepad so thank you 
also i notice noone said anything about needing 2 caps one for hb one for n/m coils so im going to assume that aint no issue since tone and volume are 500k?

You're finally there! That diagram looks good to go.

[gckelloch]

Dec 2, 2021 16:14:19 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

ok ok see i thought you had to use caps on a pickup help control tone. so i cant make my neck and mid brighter unless i rewrap them then huh?

if thats case im going tone kraft an order bobbin and magnet set i want and some 43awg wire and redo them after christmas.

You can make them brighter by using higher pot values. It bleeds less high-end to ground so the resonance peak is stronger. 2 x 500k pots should be more than adequate to give your SC pickups ample brightness. Both being 4.6k, I suspect they are Ceramic-powered SC's (like came stock in my SX Hawk guitar). The Steel poles roll off the high end more than AlNiCo poles, so 2 x 500k pots should be fine. You could wire a ~500k resistor from the lug of each one to ground if they are too bright. The cable capacitance b4 the first preamp stage affect the freq of the peak. I'd recommend ~300pF or lower with those pickups, so they have good 4kHz + chime.

[psiloguitarensis]

Unfortunately this is all I get from the humbucker when ohming. I must of messed it up so how placing new leads for the start side. Wire used for all pickups single wire with ground shielding. Ground shielding was ground for pickups. That some cheap crap I just wanna say. I did however get everything wired per diagram. Though no good news I get nothing in any positions but good news I think I fried my humbucker so I'll ha e find a used one and might as well find some used single coils so for now I'm on hold until I can mustard up a humbucker for a damn good deal

[Deleted]

Dec 3, 2021 2:03:59 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

Unfortunately this is all I get from the humbucker when ohming. I must of messed it up so how placing new leads for the start side. Wire used for all pickups single wire with ground shielding. Ground shielding was ground for pickups. That some cheap crap I just wanna say. I did however get everything wired per diagram. Though no good news I get nothing in any positions but good news I think I fried my humbucker so I'll ha e find a used one and might as well find some used single coils so for now I'm on hold until I can mustard up a humbucker for a damn good deal

Im not sure on how many ways there is to kill a Pickup, after all its Copper wire thats it.

I guess damage the wire inside, by error unsolder a connections (passing too much heat down the wire can unsolder down the other end) but with a Humbucker its to try ever lead to know which pair connect.

[psiloguitarensis]

thats what i think i did over heated my iron is 30 watts. i did order a 4 wire vintage humbucker from feller across country. its a 8k low output vintage hb using alnico 2 magnet should pair well i hoping. i might go ahead and buy his 6k set for the neck and mid only 35 bucks worth a try..

ths what meter shows constant on either pickup though it was fine registering 6.4k on each coil when i started wiring everything together maybe to much movement i dunno

[unreg]

Dec 3, 2021 9:13:54 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

thats what i think i did over heated my iron is 30 watts.

Note: my iron is 40 watts and reaches over up to 900°F; it was definitely too hot for safe guitar work.

Instead of buying a new soldering iron, I was blessed with reTrEaD’s advice:

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/9417/triac-based-lamp-dimmer-unreg

Near the bottom of that thread is a photo of the device that uses a triac-based lamp dimmer to allow reduction of electricity sent to an electrical outlet. Therefore, I just plug my soldering iron into that outlet; the dial is turned to an appropriately reduced amount of electricity; my soldering iron is limited somewhere below 900°F; soldering became fun.

(All instructions of steps/important building info is contained in that thread.)


Though, I’m unsure how your 30 watt got so hot, but I guess that’s possible; follow those steps if you’d like.


p.s. if you are interested, please read the entire thread; I believe I wrote that the dimmer would work bc my iron is 40 watts, but I corrected that statement somewhere below in that thread; honestly, that device will work no matter what you plug into the electrical outlet bc the dimmer is restricted by receiving a load of at least 40 watts (that load is coming from the wall… so it WILL definitely be well above 40 watts).

[gckelloch]

Dec 3, 2021 9:13:54 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

thats what i think i did over heated my iron is 30 watts. i did order a 4 wire vintage humbucker from feller across country. its a 8k low output vintage hb using alnico 2 magnet should pair well i hoping. i might go ahead and buy his 6k set for the neck and mid only 35 bucks worth a try..

ths what meter shows constant on either pickup though it was fine registering 6.4k on each coil when i started wiring everything together maybe to much movement i dunno

Yeah, holding an iron directly on the pickup connection point can burn the coil wire insulation and short the coil. I've done that. Best to use an alligator clip as a heat-sink between the iron and any electrical components if you can.

Sounds like a good plan with the 8k AlNiCo II HB. It will still be louder than an AlNiCo pole SC of equal or lower inductance, but you could try the 4.6k (ceramic/Steel) SC's first with the 500k pots. I assume those have flush mount poles so the note fundamentals and attack punch will be that much stronger at the same height than an AlNiCo SC with staggered poles. Even though the string pull was weaker than the 5.8k AlNiCo V SC's that came with Agile ST625-EB, my 4.6k Ceramic SC's were substantially louder and warmer sounding. Steel poles have much higher permeability than AlNiCo V.

[psiloguitarensis]

unreg got so hot each time i hit sponge piece of tip broke off so only piece of shaft by time i got to last connections lol. next time ill be more methodical about order of events.
i did notice i kept realizing i should of did this wire first lol.

 
gckelloch

 Yeah, holding an iron directly on the pickup connection point can burn the coil wire insulation and short the coil. I've done that. Best to use an alligator clip as a heat-sink between the iron and any electrical components if you can.



Sounds like a good plan with the 8k AlNiCo II HB. It will still be louder than an AlNiCo pole SC of equal or lower inductance, but you could try the 4.6k (ceramic/Steel) SC's first with the 500k pots. I assume those have flush mount poles so the note fundamentals and attack punch will be that much stronger at the same height than an AlNiCo SC with staggered poles. Even though the string pull was weaker than the 5.8k AlNiCo V SC's that came with Agile ST625-EB, my 4.6k Ceramic SC's were substantially louder and warmer sounding. Steel poles have much higher permeability than AlNiCo V.

so basically clamp alligator clip to lug and such to keep heat down cool thanks for the tip.

also im a big alnico 2 and 3 fan love those old vintage tones though steel ones are best for vintage tones.
i can always hear this glassy bubbly warm flanger/phaser reverb terra echo solo in my head just yet to find a pickup even close to what i need to create that tone
closest i found was a 4 string bass and its natural tone was glassy chorus. the neck pickup currently is so muddish i cant do pinch harmonics nor natural rings at 3579 only on 12 and its very light. mid pickup is slightly brighter and you can make out the pinch like an acoustic guitar with 12's. the humbucker was twice as loud as the neck or mid and had you foot volume pedal to drop it back before switching. im also a huge p90 fan and know the vintage are lower like 8k's so i figured it would be about like that. im currently in love with this 3 coil humbucker i found it is a strat sc and a p90 side by side and is set to be wired strat sc/humbucker/p90 so you get all 3 worlds for 130$ the Seymour Duncan SHPR-1b P-Rail neck pickup

[gckelloch]

Dec 3, 2021 21:50:42 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

unreg got so hot each time i hit sponge piece of tip broke off so only piece of shaft by time i got to last connections lol. next time ill be more methodical about order of events.
i did notice i kept realizing i should of did this wire first lol.

 
gckelloch

 Yeah, holding an iron directly on the pickup connection point can burn the coil wire insulation and short the coil. I've done that. Best to use an alligator clip as a heat-sink between the iron and any electrical components if you can.

Sounds like a good plan with the 8k AlNiCo II HB. It will still be louder than an AlNiCo pole SC of equal or lower inductance, but you could try the 4.6k (ceramic/Steel) SC's first with the 500k pots. I assume those have flush mount poles so the note fundamentals and attack punch will be that much stronger at the same height than an AlNiCo SC with staggered poles. Even though the string pull was weaker than the 5.8k AlNiCo V SC's that came with Agile ST625-EB, my 4.6k Ceramic SC's were substantially louder and warmer sounding. Steel poles have much higher permeability than AlNiCo V.

so basically clamp alligator clip to lug and such to keep heat down cool thanks for the tip.

also im a big alnico 2 and 3 fan love those old vintage tones though steel ones are best for vintage tones.
i can always hear this glassy bubbly warm flanger/phaser reverb terra echo solo in my head just yet to find a pickup even close to what i need to create that tone
closest i found was a 4 string bass and its natural tone was glassy chorus. the neck pickup currently is so muddish i cant do pinch harmonics nor natural rings at 3579 only on 12 and its very light. mid pickup is slightly brighter and you can make out the pinch like an acoustic guitar with 12's. the humbucker was twice as loud as the neck or mid and had you foot volume pedal to drop it back before switching. im also a huge p90 fan and know the vintage are lower like 8k's so i figured it would be about like that. im currently in love with this 3 coil humbucker i found it is a strat sc and a p90 side by side and is set to be wired strat sc/humbucker/p90 so you get all 3 worlds for 130$ the Seymour Duncan SHPR-1b P-Rail neck pickup

Don't need an alligator clip on guitar pickup connection points. The pickup leads will dissipate enough heat b4 it gets to the coil, but put one on a cap or resistor wire between the iron and the component. AlNiCO II and III were used in pickups until the late '50s. Steel was of course used as the poles of P90's, and it rolls off the highs. There should still be ample high-end with a 4.6k (AWG42 wire) Steel pole SC to get great pinch harmonics even with 250k pots. A ~2nF cap on the hot switch lug to ground would boost the ~2kHz range so harmonics in that range would be louder. Do they actually have a ceramic bar on the bottom...or? Perhaps they are low-inductance/low-output AlNiCo pole?

An 8k P90 would be substantially higher inductance than an 8K PAF. Again, you can use a ~1nF cap on it to boost the ~2kHz range as well. I use caps like that on the tone knob to adjust the high-end character. The tone with the knob at 4~5 is mellow enough for me. I don't need a really dark tone.

[unreg]

psiloguitarensis, I was under the impression that the dimmer to electrical outlet would be a cinch for you bc you wire houses? (Or so it seemed to me.)


frets recommended a cheap soldering iron that has a temp control. It’s in one of her coffee shop threads. 🙂


I recommend you reduce the soldering temp somehow… wowzers that you lose tip parts when your iron hits the cool down sponge. If you somehow reduce the iron temp, the sponge no longer is there to cool it down; rather it’s just for tip cleaning. 🙂

[Deleted]

Can you see any fine copper looking wire coming from the pick up itself , going to the solder point.

-----

Do think not so crazy solder iron

Heat sink is a bit wasteful, like starting a fire and chucking water on it to cool it down.

ANd dam shocked you printed it off.. it's so .. blue

[psiloguitarensis]

unreg nice little trick there for non-adjustable voltage items.

@angellahash nope sorry I dont see a wire sucks to cause i think i got both finishes. the starts appear fine and can see a wire i might try a mag lens and see it its findable or burnt back. it ok i did find a nice coil to replace it with looking forward to  it.  and blues  ok though i forgot to turn it back to white lol and welp didnt  wanna do it twice so blue i got loloolololol

was looking around saw that thread but got me thinking in welding we use a voltage box  in line to control amps at the work piece instead on going  back to truck 5 times.  didnt find nothing in that order but did find this for 25 bones

www.amazon.com/Choice-Rheostat-Soldering-Temperature-Controller/dp/B0727VNGPK

[psiloguitarensis]

So quick update got humbucker today and installed signal is cutting in and out and seems all pickups are active in current setup. The parallel series switch seems cut neck and mid pickups off in any position besides 1. The NxM doesnt seem to work on the push pull

Push pull i have neck ground to c1
1 to switch and 3 to ground so not sure why when up i get nothing.

I am testing everything with cellphone audio.

5way switch doesnt seem go all way to one position so might not fit all the way

[psiloguitarensis]

so i had a feeling blender was issue so i took that out of the equation but something not working right so i might use the volume as a volume and rehook blender and not concern myself with the neck in series with mid for now.

[newey]

Dec 10, 2021 0:54:06 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

but something not working right

If you want our help troubleshooting the problem, we'll need more specificity. What exactly is it not doing?

[psiloguitarensis]

atm i have nothing. i thought maybe the  blender was the issue so i removed that from equation but still have nothing no sound nothing. i must have a bad solder somewhere

to be honest though that pull was kinda dinky like quality. seems if i mess with wiring going to tip on jack is kinda of dinky as well so will replace that today maybe a wire broke some where

[Deleted]

First just do pickups and switches
Then wire the output from the switches direct to jack socket

Slap them pickups and make sure every switch is still getting in sound..
Would be hard to flip up the blend type you are using

But then add the blend and test again

Tone

Volume

[psiloguitarensis]

this is wire i used. i dunno if the metal shielding on outside is issue if so im going go buy some pvc wire today if lowes has it in stock and start rewiring it lol with that.

i had same idea so thats what im doing now waiting on iron to reheat up. i know the pickups are working i heard them last night but all were on at same time and wife was fussing to stop so i had stop for the night.

[unreg]

Dec 10, 2021 10:56:08 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

this is wire i used. i dunno if the metal shielding on outside is issue if so im going go buy some pvc wire today if lowes has it in stock and start rewiring it lol with that.

i had same idea so thats what im doing now waiting on iron to reheat up. i know the pickups are working i heard them last night but all were on at same time and wife was fussing to stop so i had stop for the night.

That wire doesn’t look stranded to me. Be sure to only use stranded wire for guitar work.

Guess you know this: but before adding a stranded wire, twist the exposed ends, all the strands, and tin, melt solder over/into, that twisted section of wire. Let the solder (just added to the tips) dry. Then, soldering the tinned wire, with a soldering iron at a nice temp, should be a piece of cake.


FINAL-EDIT: appropriate yt video can help teaching correcting wire tinning method

[psiloguitarensis]

the wire has 3 insulations on it a cloth a fiberglass and that metal shielding. the silver you saw is a shielding wire over the stranded wire under that.
i did get lucky and found a 10 pk of 18ga stranded wire with pvc coating. had alligator clips on both ends but for 3$ cant beat it.

i rewired it and i do thank the push pull is bad and possibly the super switch is bent so as to why i cant get into pos 1 all the way have to hold it there.

rewiring netted me a loud constant hum and nothing esle. im going order a bourn push pull and a single gang blender  i  found since one i got  from cts is shabby as hell.

i dont like that cts push pull hookup  even with tip having a 1/16th landing to get it to heat the tiny hookup area i had issues getting it  to heat and fill thats half the issue as i  think i prolly   messed it up.

with the diy  layout creator  i couldnt get the neck mid  to work in series with blender installed. when blender was removed i  got the series combo. with blender i got the b+n and b+n+m combo.
i dont think the blender and push pull will work in harmony. im going do away with the push pull and install the original volume pot for now and just get the guitar to work.

i dont appreicate everyones help. also i dont think the 2p3t switch i bought is on on on i swear it acts as a on on switch just doesnt seem i am getting  the north coil only. i tested that with tapping method on poles both pickups registered.

[newey]

psiloguitarensis-

Seems to me like you're chasing your tail a bit here. You've wired it upo, it doesn't work, but instead of troubleshooting the problem, you're starting over with new components and redoing the whole thing, when there might be only one or two things wrong.

Don't assume a switch is bad, test it with a multimeter to see if it works or not. If you don't have a meter, get one. The money you'll save in new switches will pay for it. Before you start ripping wiring out, test it.

i dont think the 2p3t switch i bought is on on on i swear it acts as a on on switch

Does it have 3 positions or only 2? Assuming it has 3, test it.

possibly the super switch is bent so as to why i cant get into pos 1 all the way have to hold it there.

Try removing it from the pickguard. If you get 5 positions with it unmounted, then the slot in the pickguard is too short. If it still won't go into position 1, then you may be right about a bent lever. If so, see if you can see where it is bent, it may be that a bit of (very gentle) pressure can bend it back. Then test the switch.

rewiring netted me a loud constant hum and nothing esle

Double check that you have the jack wired correctly and not reversed. And if you haven't yet taken my advice to remove the shielding from the jack area, I'm still recommending that.

[gckelloch]

For future projects, you might try this 22AWG wiring kit:
www.plusivo.com/home/67-plusivo-22awg-hook-up-wire-kit-600v-tinned-stranded-silicone-wire-of-6-different-colors-x-23-ft-each.html

22AWG is a standard guitar wire size. The Silicon insulation is easy to cut and doesn't melt easily, and the extras are useful. The resistor kit is good for guitar work:
www.plusivo.com/kits/26-plusivo-resistor-assortment-kit-10-to-1-m-600pcs.html

Unfortunately, the capacitor kit values are not useful for guitar tone circuitry.

This kit includes everything you'd need, including a multimeter:
www.plusivo.com/home/63-plusivo-soldering-iron-kit-with-digital-multimeter-110-v-plug-type-us-.html

BTW, I have a few of those new CTS P/P pots. They work fine and have a smooth feel. Wires are meant to be soldered into the holes in the middle of the panel, which correspond to the soldered pins below them. 22AWG will fit in those holes, and they act as heat sinks to protect the pots. You may have shorted or disconnected a pin or two heating them up. Maybe you can resolder and/or separate the pins so the pot works?

[Deleted]

It can be hard to fault find,
Multimeter (ohms and continuity [as penny wise would say the beep beep test])
And thinking a jack socket with crock clips or just two ended crock clips and clip around the jack plug to a amp set on 11. 😮

This was you can solder a bit at a time and check it works

[psiloguitarensis]

newey i check switch its definitely bent checking for where now. i do have a meter and when i ohm my pickups i get 1.65 out of all the pickups humbucker as well strange as it was 4.6 4.6 and new one is suppose be 8k

no shielding was ever installed in jack area from factory. i have black wire to ground white to middle lug of volume pot. though upon further inspection if i turn volume wide open it shuts volume off i must cut it back to 9 to get tone the hum that is

testing the 2p3t it registers as a on on on. 

for now i removed the Nxm combo and just using blender pot. though it was lose i tighten the lugs that hold it together but its janky as hell and not got really tight clamping legs seemed rather short to my eyes.

what i meant for buying a different blender and bourn i like there setups better. bourn uses 6 lugs like the on on switches simpler design and the blender i found was single gang and and 3 lugs not 6. this is for is this i find i have messed up. 

before i ohmd pots i watch video and realized i prolly need a jumper that i didnt realize i need. so i ask do i need jumpers or just connect those to wires to pot closest to pickguard? across lug 2,3 as per diagram.

i did ohm the crap out of everything in the 20m setting with meter i semi clear reading off tone pot across lug 1,2 [2,3 net 0] blender pot at 5 both pots blended lug 1,2 net .22 [lug 2,3 net nothing] this is bottom pot so farthest  from knob.
pot closest to blender i couldnt really get a good reading through solder i guess or my meter would register the ohms i dunno. though assuming here both pots are in line with each other so lugs are same on both i just dont know or are they arcoss from each other?


gckelloch i definitely used the little holes. i will say the action for up and down is slick as a whistle though pot itself is a bit janky and lose and didnt seem to tighten up much same with blender.

i keep going over diagram and what i have thinking im missing somthing and what ever it is it is very small lol. im your its so simple but for simplicity until i understand how to get the nxm combo's to work with the blender or change my configuration all together and run B+N B+N+M M+N M+B NxM which i can imagine would sound pretty damn good. though im just not sure why the blender and the Nxm combo on the push pull cancel themselves out.
also noticed initially the 2p3t switch in 2 positions cut off the neck and mid pickup anytime


i must correct my lost post it currently says dont appreciate your help though i will edit to say do lol damn i feel dumb sometimes.

[newey]

i did ohm the crap out of everything in the 20m setting with meter i semi clear reading off tone pot across lug 1,2 [2,3 net 0] blender pot at 5 both pots blended lug 1,2 net .22 [lug 2,3 net nothing] this is bottom pot so farthest from knob.
pot closest to blender i couldnt really get a good reading through solder i guess or my meter would register the ohms i dunno. though assuming here both pots are in line with each other so lugs are same on both i just dont know or are they arcoss from each other?

The above- and this whole post- is one big run-on sentence without punctuation, and it is therefore very difficult to discern your meaning.

so i ask do i need jumpers or just connect those to wires to pot closest to pickguard? across lug 2,3 as per diagram.

The only thing omitted from your diagram is the string/bridge ground wire. This is understood to be needed, and is omitted for clarity. The only thing going between the lugs of any pots is the treble bleed resistor and cap on the volume pot (which is optional in any event). No other "jumpers" are needed.

As to pots, if you measure between lugs 1 and 3, it should give you the value of the pot, plus or minus the 20% tolerance most pots are made to meet. Measuring between the other lugs will give varying measurements depending on where the knob is turned, and also depending on the taper of the pot. JohnH's "Tone Controls" section has more data on how pots vary as you roll them down.

If you have the guitar still wired up at present (and not working, as you said), you can do the testing exterior to the guitar by connecting your meter to the tip and sleeve of a cable. Make a table for all resistance values for all the various switch positions.

I mentioned checking the jack as it is an easy mistake to make to wire it backwards. I always have to look closely at the jack to be sure which lug is for the tip.

[psiloguitarensis]

i only know how to use a period to end a sentence im not grammar fancy and i use periods to break apart sentences. 
dont know any other way to help ya other then spacing and a . i tried learning grammar and my brain said not needed and so i dont know grammar properly that is .

ive checked every component all pots register a number in ohms. 

as far butt the blender every video i watched on a dual gang blender both pots had to be connected to each other so not understanding how its going to work without being connected?

every video that i watched on blenders the blender should produce a high ohm and a low ohm and you connect the two lugs that register low ohms.
i did not find different values on the blender  beyond .22 ohms on one side and 0 on other {for both pots of the blender}

do i need a lcr meter to properly test guitar components?

TONE pot hit 153 ohms and ol out

blender pot .22 ohms and nothing other leg/ o and .22k [ this discerns me as one side be low as it is but other side should hit 150 200k but i get nothing.

i have checked connections and checked again only things i find is push pull only works 2-9 with a loud hum maybe a bad ground as i quad checked jack is installed  correctly.

blender on  produces an ohm on one leg not both outside legs.

hope me breaking everything into colors for ya helps best i know  to do.   yaw been so helpful  an im just beaten down i get nothing lol.

i did a continutity test i cant find a wire broken or a pot not beeping everything beeps

[Deleted]

Dec 11, 2021 14:26:34 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

i only know how to use a period to end a sentence im not grammar fancy and i use periods to break apart sentences. 
dont know any other way to help ya other then spacing and a . i tried learning grammar and my brain said not needed and so i dont know grammar properly that is .

I'm in the same boat so will take a bit longer .. don't rush in .. bud in stages and make sure it's right, with a circuit like this it's easy to put a wire wrong or ground by error