Request HSS in search of help with a challenge

[psiloguitarensis]

im definitely taking my time. curently removing everything but for normal setup then  going add one part at  a time .

[psiloguitarensis]

ok update. i removed  the  blender and did test it with multimeter pot. for indication of what pot is  what the blender i have is dual gang 2 pots stranded  together giving 123 <<< this is pot A closest to pickguard
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    321<<< this is pot B farther from pickguard
initial i had it hookedup lug2 pot A bridge lug3 pot A

upon watching a few videos it seems im suppose to connect lug3 of pot B to lug3 pf pot A from vids  i watched.

so i removed that blender and have only a volume and a tone connected with that said only neck and mid are broadcasting sound. nothing from bridge with wired per diagram. 


Trying to find the bent part on the super switch if hard all I can see is I have about a fat 1/16 of space for switch to go over but it doesn't. The little wheel that does the connecting just doesn't go all the way over. Maybe there's something I'm missing.

Is there a test I can do on my multimeter to test which finish wires go to which coil? I feel it is black/white Nb and white/green Sb. The new humbuck I order came sheet said black was hot green and bare was ground other to did switching but didn't say which coil white and red went to.

[newey]

Dec 11, 2021 21:00:03 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

Is there a test I can do on my multimeter to test which finish wires go to which coil?

Assuming these are 4-conductor (plus shield) HBs, then yes. Set your meter to 20KΩ (if it isn't an auto-ranging model). Connect one lead to the black wire. Test the other three wires (not counting the shield). 2 of the other three will read infinite resistance or "out of range", depending on your meter. The one that is the other end of the black coil will register the DC resistance of the coil. Then, to double check, test from the green wire to the other three.

This test won't tell you if the 2 coils will be in-phase or not, but if the mfr. told you that the black was "hot" and green was ground, the coils are presumably in phase when wired that way.

[psiloguitarensis]

im alittle confused on blenders and balance pots. other than being dual gang how is a balance pot different?

i did find a wiring diagram for the balance pot and have already wired that. had take care few things will work on tomorrow.

update on super switch. im going order new super switch tomorrow with a bourn style push pull. i cant find where it is bent but the contact wheel will not go into pos 5 at all cant find reason either.

[newey]

Dec 14, 2021 3:53:42 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

im alittle confused on blenders and balance pots. other than being dual gang how is a balance pot different?

You can use a regular single-gang pot for a blender. The diagrams we were working through with you for this all showed the blender as a single-gang pot. The difference is in how you want to do the blending. With a single-gang pot, you are blending one thing into another. So, if the single gang blender is on the neck pickup, and you have the bridge pickup selected, the bridge pickup's level is fixed and you are blending varying amounts of neck signal into the bridge signal.

With a 2-ganged pot with a center detent, you are blending one thing out at the same time you are blending another thing into the signal. So, if a dual-gang blender is on the neck and bridge pickups, both pickups are "full on" in the center detent. As you rotate in one direction, one gang of the pot blends the neck out; in the opposite direction the bridge is blended out. Both levels can be varied, not just one. At one extreme of rotation, it will be "all neck", at the other extreme, it will be "all bridge".

Dual-gang pots without the center detent can also be wired this way, but the center detent makes it less "fiddly" in use.

EDIT: Oh, also you should read this:
ChrisK's Blend and Pan pots

[psiloguitarensis]

ok ok that explains alot now as far differences and understanding what i was missing. as far as that goes that wont make a difference which one i use then does it?

i would still  like to keep the neck/mid in series ability what would be best way go about testing to make sure the blender and pull pot will play friendly and able to do both per final diagram.

now that i figured out the blender issue i feel the nxm series connection will work. especially since i realized i was trying wire a dual gang as a single gang thus half my issues. it is always the small things over looked that git ya.

the programs yaw use to draw diagrams with ,  do they come with analyzers ? the programs yaw use that is. i know angels are more blueprint schematic style i'd  like to know what program that is . i feel it might help me
understand what im missing here connection and ability wise.

i ordered the new super switch and a bourn push pull. <<< this bourn style is way easier to solder to and way nicer i must say.. im  not good at soldering to circuit board style stuff when i got a way to hot iron lol.
though i have modded an acura integra ecu and worked just fine even day i sold it

[newey]

You're the only one I know of who has used analyzer software. I just draw diagrams with MS Paint, others use different things.

We have many members who come here because they are doing a single project, and they want a "paint-by-numbers" approach. One of us draws up a diagram for their project, someone else checks it over, and the member then solders it up according to the diagram. They don't need to know how it works or know any electrival theory, they're just following directions. And that's fine, typically after they've done their project, we never hear from them again.

But if it's going to be more than a one-time thing, it is helpful to be able to know why a circuit works (or doesn't). If any troubleshooting is necessary, it's pretty tough to do if one doesn't know how and why things are wired they way they are. And the limitations of the internet make it hard for us to help much with troubleshooting, where often a simple look at the wiring with the guitar in hand would disclose the issue.

Before I joined here, I had no idea how to read a schematic. And, while I can now read a schematic for simple circuits like a guitar, schematics for things with transistors, IC chips, etc are way beyond my limited capabilities. It just takes some time to learn. The starting point for schematics is to realize that a schematic diagram just shows how things are electrically connected to one another, it has nothing to do with how components appear physically or where they are physically located. So, for example, on a schematic the two poles of a single switch might be depicted on opposite sides of the diagram if that's where the two poles need to be to simplify showing their connections- we don't care where the parts of the switch are physically located, just how they relate electrically to other components. And one must of course learn the standardized symbols for the various components. Like anything else, start with simple schematics, learn to trace the connections.

All of us here started somewhere, we just started earlier than you. And, while some of our members do have degrees in engineering and/or years of hands-on experience, it isn't necessary to understand simple circuits like those in a guitar.

[unreg]

(Sry, I’m becoming our microwave’s repeating 5 beep signal that alerts its heating is done, or has been done.)

Dec 14, 2021 19:51:47 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

not good at soldering to circuit board style stuff when i got a way to hot iron lol.

Reminder: It’s cheap and easy to fix a way too hot iron.

[psiloguitarensis]

so been a few days parts came  late but i did manage to get everything wired up last night.

going to string her up today  and try her out. I tested each pickup in each  position  with audio from my phone and got sounds in every position. 

It didnt sound like i  was getting sound from mid pickup when i pull volume switch up for the  NxM combo.

the  series parallel coil split switch i swear doesnt cut south coil  off  but atm everythings appears correct beyond that bit. all modes appear  to activate n n+m, m, m+b, b, n+b, n+m+b, NxM .

lots of  non  hum canceling which  im  ok  with. neck and mid pickup seemed  considerably brighter. bridge seemed  bright like straight  to  output bright.

tone through  all 3 pickups sounds exact so im hoping thats a sign  he bridge pickup will hopefully produce the tones im looking for.

i wanna thank everyone so much. hope sometime yaw come to colorado  and i could buy yaw some beers.. ill make  a demo video in next few days to show case  all the work.



edit ok so stringed her up newey

at bridge pos's there is no series/parallel/ split coil at all only parallel sounds great though.
 i dont think i will be able to have neck and mid in series parallel and that work in harmony with the balance pot doing b+n and b+n+m

i was hoping with 2 extra poles i could have neck and mid pickup switchable between series and parallel for the tone differnces. its ok if i still wanted to use that push pull for anoither tonal change what esle could i do we know wouldnt interfer with the balance pot operation?

[psiloguitarensis]

this is how i have it kind of figured out. the program i use shows everything working but for split coil and im ok with that so im wiring as such and will string it back up.ill keep updated.






Switch configuration: [SW1.ON1:SW2.1:SW3.ON1, SW1.ON1:SW2.2:SW3.ON1, SW1.ON1:SW2.3:SW3.ON1, SW1.ON2:SW2.1:SW3.ON1, SW1.ON2:SW2.2:SW3.ON1, SW1.ON2:SW2.3:SW3.ON1] Parallel/Series connectivity tree: ((.1-2 || 150k || C3) + (Middle.South<- + Neck.North->)) ||  .2-3 Notes:   'Middle' and 'Neck' pickups engaged, wired in series   This configuration is NOT hum-cancelling   Some pickup coils are wired OUT-of-phase   '' potentiometer acts as a volume control for 'Middle' and 'Neck'



Switch configuration: [SW1.ON1:SW2.1:SW3.ON2, SW1.ON2:SW2.1:SW3.ON2] Parallel/Series connectivity tree: ((.1-2 || 150k || C3) + Neck.North->) ||  .2-3 Notes:   'Neck' is the only engaged pickup   This configuration is NOT hum-cancelling   '' potentiometer acts as a volume control for 'Neck'



Switch configuration: [SW1.ON1:SW2.2:SW3.ON2, SW1.ON2:SW2.2:SW3.ON2] Parallel/Series connectivity tree: ((.1-2 || 150k || C3) + (Middle.South<- || Neck.North->)) ||  .2-3 Notes:   'Middle' and 'Neck' pickups engaged, wired in parallel   This configuration is NOT hum-cancelling   Some pickup coils are wired OUT-of-phase   '' potentiometer acts as a volume control for 'Middle' and 'Neck'



Switch configuration: [SW1.ON1:SW2.3:SW3.ON2, SW1.ON2:SW2.3:SW3.ON2] Parallel/Series connectivity tree: ((.1-2 || 150k || C3) + Middle.South<-) ||  .2-3 Notes:   'Middle' is the only engaged pickup   This configuration is NOT hum-cancelling   '' potentiometer acts as a volume control for 'Middle'



Switch configuration: [SW1.ON1:SW2.4:SW3.ON1] Parallel/Series connectivity tree: ((.1-2 || 150k || C3) + (Bridge.North<- || Bridge.South<- || (Neck.North-> + Middle.South<-))) ||  .2-3 Notes:   'Bridge' pickup wired in humbucking mode with parallel coils   'Bridge', 'Neck', 'Middle' pickups engaged, wired in parallel   This configuration is NOT hum-cancelling   Some pickup coils are wired OUT-of-phase   '' potentiometer acts as a volume control for 'Bridge', 'Neck', 'Middle'



Switch configuration: [SW1.ON1:SW2.4:SW3.ON2] Parallel/Series connectivity tree: ((.1-2 || 150k || C3) + (Bridge.North<- || Bridge.South<- || Middle.South<-)) ||  .2-3 Notes:   'Bridge' pickup wired in humbucking mode with parallel coils   'Bridge' and 'Middle' pickups engaged, wired in parallel   This configuration is NOT hum-cancelling   All pickup coils are wired in-phase   '' potentiometer acts as a volume control for 'Bridge' and 'Middle'



Switch configuration: [SW1.ON1:SW2.5:SW3.ON1, SW1.ON1:SW2.5:SW3.ON2] Parallel/Series connectivity tree: ((.1-2 || 150k || C3) + (Bridge.North<- || Bridge.South<-)) ||  .2-3 Notes:   'Bridge' pickup wired in humbucking mode with parallel coils   'Bridge' is the only engaged pickup   This configuration is hum-cancelling   All pickup coils are wired in-phase   '' potentiometer acts as a volume control for 'Bridge'



Switch configuration: [SW1.ON2:SW2.4:SW3.ON1] Parallel/Series connectivity tree: ((.1-2 || 150k || C3) + ((Bridge.North<- + Bridge.South<-) || (Neck.North-> + Middle.South<-))) ||  .2-3 Notes:   'Bridge' pickup wired in humbucking mode with series coils   'Bridge', 'Neck', 'Middle' pickups engaged, wired in parallel   This configuration is NOT hum-cancelling   Some pickup coils are wired OUT-of-phase   '' potentiometer acts as a volume control for 'Bridge', 'Neck', 'Middle'



Switch configuration: [SW1.ON2:SW2.4:SW3.ON2] Parallel/Series connectivity tree: ((.1-2 || 150k || C3) + ((Bridge.North<- + Bridge.South<-) || Middle.South<-)) ||  .2-3 Notes:   'Bridge' pickup wired in humbucking mode with series coils   'Bridge' and 'Middle' pickups engaged, wired in parallel   This configuration is NOT hum-cancelling   All pickup coils are wired in-phase   '' potentiometer acts as a volume control for 'Bridge' and 'Middle'



Switch configuration: [SW1.ON2:SW2.5:SW3.ON1, SW1.ON2:SW2.5:SW3.ON2] Parallel/Series connectivity tree: ((.1-2 || 150k || C3) + (Bridge.South<- + Bridge.North<-)) ||  .2-3 Notes:   'Bridge' pickup wired in humbucking mode with series coils   'Bridge' is the only engaged pickup   This configuration is hum-cancelling   All pickup coils are wired in-phase   '' potentiometer acts as a volume control for 'Bridge'

[psiloguitarensis]

i did all i could to get the balance pot to work with the push pull doing NxM im back to tandard configuration until i can make a tone pot into a  blender by making it no load pot. i tried using a standard a500k as a blender but did not work one bit.


i do have the humbucker wired for series parallel split coil and works great though really only notice split coil in b+m mode. at this point i want to just add the bridge on mod with the push pull for b+n and b+n+m 

also to fill empty void im going place bridge back on seperate tone. i dont think i like whole guitar on one tone and forcing bridge to use same cap as single coils i notice the tone difference with a the bridge on .047 cap. 

[psiloguitarensis]

current wiring is 

 


while proposed changes would be




my question is if i remove the jumper on the 3way and use a cap is that accomplishing the same as adding a cap inline to aide in split coil tone?

i did not like that balance pot was scratchy and did not like the having to flip switch one way or other to use neck or bridge. so i reverted from that.

i did however find my issue with the cts push pull and had burnt a tracer line on the board. i swapped for a bourn lug style and like it alot plus not a long thread.

i wasnt sure on how to convert a b500k pot into a blender so i just left it as a tone pot. i did wire the pot randomly like a blender to test it and it didnt work. did see a post on it needed be "no-load"? ie: removing end of carbon trace

[newey]

HMM, let me take a look.

Edit: The cap will work there, but there may be a better way, let's let others weigh in.

I also note that you have added another switch, which looks to be a "bridge on" switch, but I can't follow where the green wires go as they run into the light blue.

[psiloguitarensis]

newey yuck i see that on the image now ill edit post with a reference so to elude anyones confusion. 

[newey]

Looking much better now. The bridge on switch will work as drawn, it adds the bridge in at positions 4 and 5, so B + N and B + M + N are added conbos. But I'm not sure you want to do it as you have shown it. If the "bridge On' switch is "up" (per the diagram, that is, the lever will be down), the bridge "hot" is disconnected from positions 1 and 2 on the lower left pole of the Superswitch. So, if you're playing with the Bridge On in positions 4 and 5, and you want to switch to position 1 (bridge alone) or position 2 (B + M), you will have no output from the bridge (unless you first flip the Bridge On switvh the other way). To fix this, just send the "bridge on" signal directly to the volume pot and don't worry about the 5 way switch. That willl give you the "bridge On" at all positions of the 5-way switch. Or, if you really just want to add the bridge in positions 4 and 5, then use one pole of the Superswitch to switch the bridge alone. The "Bridge On" switch then connects to either lugs 1 and 2 or to 4 and 5, and send the commons to output as shown.

But the Neck tone? Are you sure you want it active in positions 2 through 5? As drawn, you have the bridge tone in positions 1 and 2, the neck/middle tone is in positions 2 through 5, and then when you use the "bridge On" switch, now it's a master tone in positions 2 through 4, and you'll have both tone controls active in position 2. If that's what you want, fine, but I think you'd do better to run the bridge tone right off the bridge "hot", before you get to the bridge on and the 5-way switch. The neck/mid tone can stay as is, but if you want to avoid the interaction at position 2, just limit the neck/mid tone to positions 3,4,5.

[psiloguitarensis]

as such sir? I didnt think about putting bridge on one pole then tone for neck and mid on one pole neck and mid connections another pole. and i get 2 tones and bridge. im going have buy some strings very very very soon so i can dwell in the realm of the never ending story muahahahahaha

[newey]

Now that I look at it, not sure I told you right. You still won't get the bridge pickup on the 5-way at 1 and 2 without flipping the switch. Prpbably best to do it the other way, just wire the bridge to output from one end of the switch, other end goes to the 5-way. So, switch "down" gives you the normal 5-way selections, switch "up" adds the bridge to whatever is selected by the 5-way. The selections then would be N + B/ N + M + B/ M + B/ M + B/ B

[newey]

Sorry for the bum steer there. If you want to have it like you envision it, wire it this way:




EDIT: I should clarify that, on your latest diagram, the bridge red wire changes color to white after the series/parallel switch. I left it as red.

[psiloguitarensis]

appreciate the help soon as i grab some new strings off to modding again. though now i wonder 0if using a 2.2k res like prs for jumper to give partial split or try a .047 cap as a jumper to aide in tone.
who would you recommend @ to give incite on the topic?

[newey]

JohnH would be the one to ask. A resistor will just cut all frequencies from the one pickup, the idea of the cap is to atttenuate the highs from the one coil, but leaving the lower frequncies for some added "heft" in conjunction with the unaffected coil.

[sumgai]

newey,


Holy Jeebus, that's just about a perfect implementation adhering to The First Law Of GNuts2 - "Leave no lug unsoldered". © The Beta Particle Bombarder, 2010

Since the Bridge will be on in positions 1 & 2 no matter what, why are those two positions switched at all?   Survey says......

Boiled down, this is nothing more than a simple "Bridge (almost) always on".  A simple On/Off configuration for positions 4 & 5 would do the same job. Less wire, less soldering time, fewer points of potential failure.

HTH




sumgai

[reTrEaD]

Jan 3, 2022 11:17:22 GMT -5 sumgai said:

newey,


Holy Jeebus, that's just about a perfect implementation adhering to The First Law Of GNuts2 - "Leave no lug unsoldered". © The Beta Particle Bombarder, 2010

Yep. This is a great example of a faulty Law. I always felt that was downside up and bass ackwards.

Examples of principles I do agree with ...

- Let no possibility go unexamined.
- Don't tie up a pole where a throw will suffice.
- Try to get the most bang for the bux you've already spent.

[unreg]

Jan 2, 2022 20:47:16 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

Great that you’ve routed your jack’s ground directly to your vol pot’s ground lug! That’s so much better; now your vol pot is definitely grounded! 👍

[reTrEaD]

Jan 3, 2022 15:40:04 GMT -5 unreg said:

Great that you’ve routed your jack’s ground directly to your vol pot’s ground lug! That’s so much better; now your vol pot is definitely grounded! 👍

Not-so-much.

Connecting the wire from the sleeve of the output jack to the volume pot's CCW lug isn't necessarily a bad thing but if there is any uncertainty related to the wire between the CCW lug and the case of the pot where the other connections are being made, it would be better to have the wire from the sleeve connected to the case of the pot.

In my opinion, the order of priority for 'definite' connection to the sleeve of the output jack would be:

1. The three black (-) pickup connections
2. The connections to the cases of the other pots
3. The string ground
4. The CCW lug of the volume pot

(2 and 3 are roughly equal in priority)

[psiloguitarensis]

ok so its ok to ground to lug but better to a central ground. i went yesterday to  get strings didnt have what i was looking for. always ran 12 and 13 for high e thinking of changing to smaller for my knuckles and winter time.

i was looking thread over for the caps for partial shunting and 1nf-100nf but would staying lower be better? i was going get a 3nf and a 6nf to test split coil with. i have a spare 1nF from a treble bleed kit and use that as a jumper to see if i get split coil or partial coil shunting in the process. 

i figure only way to know if i can use a cap as a jumper to get a partial split coil is to test it out and see what works. jhng what do you think about using a 1-10nF cap as a jumper on a 3way to make a split coil? would placing cap in another location be better? what cap would you recommend using? i might even run jumper wires so i can change the cap until best sound but would like a starting point so i chose 1-10nF

[unreg]

Jan 3, 2022 22:24:59 GMT -5 reTrEaD said:

Jan 3, 2022 15:40:04 GMT -5 unreg said:

Great that you’ve routed your jack’s ground directly to your vol pot’s ground lug! That’s so much better; now your vol pot is definitely grounded! 👍

Not-so-much.

Connecting the wire from the sleeve of the output jack to the volume pot's CCW lug isn't necessarily a bad thing but if there is any uncertainty related to the wire between the CCW lug and the case of the pot where the other connections are being made, it would be better to have the wire from the sleeve connected to the case of the pot

My quoted comment is made from ashcatlt’s teaching, that other connections would be better made elsewhere; case of the pot is not an optimal location to make connections.

But, it’s good to know that if we do make the solder-connections-to-pot-case choice, then it’s best to solder jack’s ground to vol pot case. Thank you reTrEaD 😊