Request HSS in search of help with a challenge

[psiloguitarensis]

HSS pickup configuration

NECK 4.6K
MIDDLE 4.6K
HUM 12.8K

GOALS
install 3 way DPDT for a series|parallel|split
install blender pot for b+n and b+m+n mode 

outcome 

P|P DOWN POS \ parallel
1 bridge + middle + neck
2 bridge + middle neck blendable
3 Bridge
4 middle + neck  n+bridge blendable
5 bridge + neck

P|P DOWN POS / series
1 bridge middle + neck
2 bridge + middle neck blendable
3 bridge
4 middle + neck  n+bridge blendable
5 bridge + neck

P|P DOWN POS | split
1 N+bridge + mid+ neck
2 N+bridge + mid  neck blendable
3 mid
4 mid + neck N+bridge blendable
5  N+bridge + neck


this is a test mode area
TELE MODE P|P UP this i have no clue how it would actually look as far as layout i down how this would work but strat o tele is there and a cool option i have seen on youtube
1 neck + mid
2
3 mid + neck
4 
5 

[newey]

psiloguitarensis-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

There's a lot to digest here, but there may be a scheme around here that is close to what you're looking to do, Lemme think on it a bit. A few points:

Cts 500k long thread 500k push pull pot

On a pickguard-equipped guitar, this will stick up like the proverbial "sore thumb" . . .

3 way dpdt ( solder pin style like circuit board pins)

Probably not the best choice for guitar use. Possible to use it but likely to cause grief and frustration.

I want to phase switch the humbucker so it can be quacky or normal, or is that considered series parallel?

This is unclear. If you mean that you want to be able to put the bridge pickup out-of-phase ("OOP") with the other pickups, that is often done. If you are talking about putting the individual coils of the HB OOP with each other, that is unlikely to result in a useable sound, as the coils will cancel out virtually the entire signal. People have wired HBs this way, but I can't recall happiness as a result. . .

Series/parallel wiring is a different animal. Switching the coils of a HB between series and parallel is commonly done. The parallel HB coils have a tone that veers towrds that of a single coil, but maintains the hum-cancellation. I'm not a big fan of humbuckers, but on the guitars I have that are HB-equipped, I have series/parallel switches on most and use the parallel option quite a bit.

The blend pot is for both neck mid pickups but would it be best to just use normal tone pot?
I'm not truly understanding all my options with that blender pot.

1-5 in phase
1-5 out of phase

1-5 series
1-5 parallel
I ask which one gives me more quack?

Sorry, I'm not following this at all. Typically, a blender is used to blend the signal from one pickup into the mix of the other(s).

[psiloguitarensis]

Thanks for response

Easy enough

I can always replace the long thread with a short down the road.

I will definitely look into swapping the 3 way with that of a different connection setup

Yes I meant basic a phase switch.

Parallel sound more my taking so would be best to do 1-5 series/Parallel setup.

Does the blender pot do away with the need for a 3 way dpdt?

Definitely trying get most tones then being able blend mid pickup anytime

[newey]

Nov 13, 2021 15:58:51 GMT -5 newey said:

1-5 series
1-5 parallel
I ask which one gives me more quack?

Oh, OK got you now on this. Standard Strat wiring is in parallel, and the parallel interaction at positions 2 and 4 is what gives you the "quack". Series wiring of 2 single coils will give a bit more output and will be a bit darker; it's effectively like make a humbucker with a wide space between the coils.

So, one option using the superswitch and a blend pot, you could do a scheme which did the following:

1) A phase switch for either the neck or bridge pickup, using your push/pull pot.

2) A blender, allowing you to blend in the middle pickup to whatever is selected on the 5-way. This could be a regular pot.

3) 5-way Superswitch controls the Neck and bridge pickups, with the 5 positions being:
1) Bridge series HB
2) Bridge parallel HB
3) Bridge x Neck (i.e., series)
4) Bridge + Neck (parallel)
5) Neck

This is just one option, there are many other things you could do. You would not need a separate switch for the "Gilmore mod" here. The Gilmore mod is just a "neck on" switch to add the neck pickup to the standard 5-way selections, it gives you 2 additional tones on a SSS Strat- N + B and N + M + B. Here, you would already have the N + B on the superswitch, and blending in the middle pickup would give you the N + M + B.

Downside to the above is that you lose the middle pickup by itself. If that is important to you, you could put the middle only position back on the 5-way switch and use the blend pot to add it to the other positions of the 5-way. Then, a separate DPDT switch (which could be a 2nd push/pull pot) could do the HB series/parallel switching.

[newey]

Here's a mid-blend scheme from member Tim several years ago. In any scheme with a mid pickup blender, it would work best using a no-load pot for the blender. These can be purchased, or can be made from a regular pot if you are handy with disassembling things.

Tim's scheme uses a 4-way Baja Tele switch, but a 5-way Superswitch could be used instead, with some modifications to the diagram.

Dial-A-Duck

[newey]

Nov 13, 2021 19:24:41 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

I was reading one post you had that was so complex I spin circles

Well, you are asking for a lot of options, any scheme that does all this is going to get complex.

Since I have a super switch I can then just use pp to go to quack mode then use blender pot to add mid anytime?

Yes, as to the middle blender. Using the push/pull to "go to quack mode" sounds like you mean to use it as a series/parallel switch, to go between parallel combos on the 5-way switch and series options. That, too, can be done, if that's what you mean.

JohnH's design for a series/parallel blended HSS Strat is probably simpler. It uses a neck blend, not a middle blend, but as the number of commments illustrates, people seem to like the scheme.

Yes, you can retain the tone knob. It can be a master tone if the other pot is used as a blender.

[newey]

Nov 14, 2021 13:15:15 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

500k push pull for the series/ parallel switching. Can this be my volume knob and do the switch or must it remind a tone knob??

Yes, the push/pull pot can ber used for either a volume or tone (or blender) pot. The switch and the pot are electrically separate (unless you wire them together as a part of a given scheme). They are merely physically joined into a single unit.

How is everyone drawing there schematics? Found diy project on github seemed promising as it started out for amps and such

Good question. I had a free program I was using a few years ago, it was very simple (and simplistic), but it ceased being updated and wouldn't run in Win 10. I've been looking around for something similar but so far haven't found any free programs I like.

[newey]

Nov 14, 2021 21:19:17 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

am I able to use the 3way dpdt to split humbucker to single coil mode? \|/(inside coil neutral outer coil?

If, by "neutral", you mean with the regular HB in the middle, yes, that can be done. Either a DPDT On-On-On or a DPDT On-Off-On will work. Alternatively, you could use a DPDT On-On-On switch to give Series HB/Parallel HB/Single coil (your choice whether it's the N or S coil).

Here's a diagram for either single coil, with the full HB in the center position. Wire colors are SD colors (with grey for the white wire).

[Deleted]

output from the Blend maybe

I was suggested this software to do drawings of circuits

[psiloguitarensis]

Is bumping aloud? I do believe I have a fair part of it figured out the super switch eludes me and how to hook up the tone correctly and blender as well

[Deleted]

sadly i can not read that hmm Colour chart. im more circuits
Maybe if i post some thing they will comment and correct it for what you want

[newey]

bumping is fine. Sorry that I haven't had the chance to look your diagram over, I'll try to get to it tomorrow after work.

[newey]

Nov 14, 2021 13:15:15 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

Welp I got figured out how I want it I believe

Now that I look back through the thread, I'm not entirely clear on what you want. I suggested JohnH's scheme, you said you liked the idea of a neck blend, but I'm unsure exactly what you want on the 5-way switch.

[newey]

Nov 17, 2021 16:06:21 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

I have gotten my self lost swapping a 500k push pull for the vol

500k push pull vol pot for series/parallel

OK, is this switch putting the 2 coils of the bridge HB in either series or parallel, or is this putting a pickup in series/parallel with another pickup?

Note that JohnH's design does give you a series setting, N x Bn, using the blender at position 5. I'm not sure how a series/parallel swith will coexist with that blender. Off the top of my head, it might be possible to switch the HB coils from series/parallel without screwing up the blender. As for series/parallel between the pickups, I don't think that is possible with the blender.

But I could be wrong about that, maybe someone else has some better ideas than I.

500k master tone pot

JohnH's design has a master tone control, wire your 500K one just as shown on his diagram.

Treble bleed circuit

Also already shown on JohnH's diagram.

3 way dpdt for coil splits to run as single coil mode north or south

My diagram to do so is posted above. It would be wired "first in line" after the HB. But this, too, might not work with the blender, now that I ponder it some more. We'll need some other input on these questions.

As for the Superswitch, the diagram should be clear as to how to wire that.

[jhng]

Hello, I had a look at your thread and like Newey I do not fully understand what you are planning. You have lots of very useful ingredients but the recipe and the intended final dish are not clear. With the ingredients you have, you could make many amazing mods with lots useful combinations. But you need to focus on exactly how you want it work.

Can I make a suggestion? Why not write out a list of the pickup combinations that you think will be most useful to you (including the standard ones that you currently use). Then someone can help you ensure that your wiring does these combinations in a useful way.

[Deleted]

seymour duncan do a lot of diagrams (drawn ones, that circuit)
and you could Pick up and Mix what pickups and Volumes/Tone you wanted

but i dont know the link myself
i did think it was Fab (dam showing my ages .. ok GROOVEY then!! im still hip and down with it)

[newey]

The 5 way super switch I'm just not under standing with so many extra lug how to connect all the pickup options and then connecting pots correct as well. I have a fair understanding of reading schematics and accomplishing the project at hand but am just not great with completely understanding how to know where everything goes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, psiloguitarensis, but what I'm gathering is that you are happy with the selections on the 5-way switch as per JohnH's diagram, but are having trouble translating the diagram to the physical switch in your hand. If so, this link may help clarify things for you. Yes, there are a lot of lugs on the superswitch, but once you understand how the switch works, it will become easier to translate the diagram to the actual switch.

The Superswitch

If I'm wrong, and you want other combinations on the Superswitch, then as jhng said, we'll need to know exactly what you want.

[newey]

Nov 18, 2021 11:29:02 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

My goal for now to make humbucker series or parallel 
In hopes of finding more quack tones to explore. Mid pickup I love so 2 is my go to then 4 
I use 1,3 for rhythm and 5 for all out tone . When I play tool and pretend I'm good at it. So my hopes of the parallel mode will give me more les Paul tone with it being thinner.

First of all, I understand that we may be having a bit of a language barrier here if English is not your native tongue. We'll work through those issues, no one here is trying to confuse you on any of this. But you seem to have a few misconceptions.

In the standard Strat wiring, using a regular 5-way switch (not a Superswitch), all the pickup combinations are in parallel. There are no series connections with regular Strat wiring. It is the parallel combination of the B and M pickups at position 2, and the parallel combination of N and M at position 4, that give the characteristic "quack". If you have a Squier Strat with a regular 5-way switch, you already have parallel connections at 2 and 4. However, your guitar also has a humbucker at the bridge, and humbuckers sound darker and deeper, not "thinner", than a single coil. So, in order to maintain some "quack" at position 4, the humbucker is typically split to one coil at position 4, with the full humbucker at position 5. If you have the stock wiring scheme on your guitar, your bridge HB probably is split to single coil at position 4 already (You can use a metal object to tap on the coils with the guitar plugged into an amp to see if this is the case with your guitar, or you can look at the wiring to see).

People often add more switching (including a Superswitch) because they want to have added series pickup combinations to the regular Strat wiring. These combos will sound darker, deeper, and "less quacky" than the regular parallel combinations. A Les Paul has 2 humbuckers (typically, not always). I don't know if you've ever played an LP-style guitar, but there is no way I would describe the sound as "thinner" than a Strat guitar with single coil pickups- just the opposite. The classic tone of an LP guitar has no "quack" in the way that people describe the sound from a Strat.

So, adding a series/parallel switch will not get you any more "quackiness" than you already have- it will give you added series combos in addition to the parallel ones you already have, and these will be darker, less quacky. I know of no way to add more "quack" than you already have, unless perhaps by using different pickups than what you now have- and that's a whole different subject apart from switching.

As I said above, JohnH's scheme uses a blender to split the bridge HB and also to give one series combination. I don't know if you can add a series/parallel switch with the blender, but adding one, with or without the blender, isn't going to add any more "quack".

As for using a switch to select which coil of the bridge humbucker is active, again, not sure that will work with the blender or not. JohnH's scheme splits the HB to the North coil so as to maintain hum-cancellation when paired with the middle pickup at position 2 (He assumes Seymore Duncan pickups, others may vary as to N versus S coils). If the South coil is selected, it won't be hum-cancelling with the middle pickup (Although it would be when in combination with the neck pickup, if the N + B combo is available in the scheme). Typically, there is a very minimal difference in the sound between one HB coil or the other; usually having a switch selecting N or S coils is done to maximize hum-cancellation.

I hope the above explanation helps yoiu (and us) to "zero in" on exactly what you want to do here.

[jhng]

So, you like quack.

What about this:

1. Bridge (plus three-way toggle)
2. Bridge (single coil) + Middle
3. Blender
4. Middle + Neck
5. Neck

Blender in position 3 — Blends from Middle (at 10) to Neck + Bridge (single) (at 0) with all three pickups at the centre (at 5).

Phase switch on Middle pickup

Three-way on position 1 — Series Humbucker, Single, Parallel humbucker

2 and 4 are the normal Strat quack sounds.


I remember that having all three single coils with Middle out of phase gives an unusual bouncy sound. So I think that blending in position 3 with out of phase Middle might give lots of different sorts of quack.

If it works well you could call it the quack-o-caster.

[Deleted]

I'm lost..
Let's keep this simple

Last what you want for the five way
1,2,3,4 and 5

Adding notes when you want blend to kick in at what stages and between what.

I'm guessing this 3way switch is a 2p2t on/off/on toggle.

Example
1 neck with tone a a volume
2 middle and neck with tone a and voloum
3 middle and voloum
4 bridge and middle with tone b and vole
5 bridge with tone b and volume

Keep it sole and to the point what you want



Dam phone acting up and. Behind in the chat

[Deleted]

Nov 18, 2021 14:30:33 GMT -5 jhng said:

So, you like quack.

What about this:

1. Bridge (plus three-way toggle)
2. Bridge (single coil) + Middle
3. Blender
4. Middle + Neck
5. Neck

Blender in position 3 — Blends from Middle (at 10) to Neck + Bridge (single) (at 0) with all three pickups at the centre (at 5).

Phase switch on Middle pickup

Three-way on position 1 — Series Humbucker, Single, Parallel humbucker

2 and 4 are the normal Strat quack sounds.


I remember that having all three single coils with Middle out of phase gives an unusual bouncy sound. So I think that blending in position 3 with out of phase Middle might give lots of different sorts of quack.

If it works well you could call it the quack-o-caster.

Think can do that
I'm just having trouble with the blend being Middle blended with Neck+Bridge (single)

Can do it but! Toggle controls the bridge always.
For the M+N+B with single coil I need five 1) neck 2) bridge 3) middle 4)output and 5) single coil for bridge

As the toggle does this. I would kick it in touch.

[jhng]

Nov 18, 2021 15:18:03 GMT -5 @angellahash said:

Think can do that
I'm just having trouble with the blend being Middle blended with Neck+Bridge (single)

[/quote]

I think with a super switch it would be quite easy, because all the main combos are parallel. So less complicated switching. If psilo likes the idea, I can have a quick go at a schematic.

[psiloguitarensis]

After newey super good explanation of things im  fine with john h design originally posted 

changes made are as followed

500k push pull pot for series/parallel switching

250k blender

500k master tone

3way dpdt to split humbucker to single coil

using the super 5 way 

VOLUME UP
1 bridge series
2 bridge + middle series
3 b+m+n blended 
4 m+n blended
5 mid

VOLUME POT DOWN
1 bridge parallel
2 bridge + Middle parallel
3 B + M + N parallel
4 Mid + neck parallel
5 Mid

THIS IS MY DIAGRAM i made using diy layout what parts do i have correct and do i correct the improper connections.

i do thank everyone for the input thank you thank you

Nov 18, 2021 14:06:42 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

[unreg]

Nov 18, 2021 16:32:58 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

500k push pull pot for series/parallel switching

250k blender

500k master tone

3way dpdt to split humbucker to single coil

using the super 5 way 

VOLUME UP
1 bridge series
2 bridge + middle series
3 b+m+n blended 
4 m+n blended
5 mid

VOLUME POT DOWN
1 bridge parallel
2 bridge + Middle parallel
3 B + M + N parallel
4 Mid + neck parallel
5 Mid

hi psiloguitarensis, my reply here isn’t quality input, but your diagram is missing the helpful truth table. The info quoted here should be a part of your diagram bc diagrams tend to travel; and when yours visits anywhere else, the quoted truth table will no longer be present; so the diagram will no longer make sense to others. See diagrams by frets; her’s always have truth tables now. 🙂 Makes the diagnosis so much easier on many equipped gn2 members.


EDIT: oooh, you don’t need diagnosis; regardless, truth tables make external interpretation possible.

[psiloguitarensis]

Hey no problem when i get home I'll make a legend on diagram and repost so give me 20 mins?

[unreg]

No rush, but that will be helpful! 🙂

[Deleted]

VOLUME UP
1 bridge series
2 bridge + middle series
3 b+m+n blended 
4 m+n blended
5 mid

VOLUME POT DOWN
1 bridge parallel
2 bridge + Middle parallel
3 B + M + N parallel
4 Mid + neck parallel
5 Mid


Look at this combo and so far i would need 5P5T and 5P2T Toggle
I've kept the Humbucker on a 2P2T (On/On/On)

[Deleted]

Nov 18, 2021 19:49:23 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

hmm
I think Back to Basic, need to look at Tone, Volume and Blend and what you need and should look like.
I think asking for a Truth Table for this circuit is taking the P really
Main point is Jack Red & Black are Linked together

[jhng]

psiloguitarensis -- That is a nice looking diagram and I can see you have worked hard on it. However, it is not quite right yet. I think you have some short-circuits.

Guitar wiring is quite complicated and it is very easy to have an accidental short-circuit which will mean no sound -- not good! I learned to wire guitars about 15-20 years ago and at the beginning it was always wrong. I remember getting very frustrated until I found the original Guitar Nuts site which helped a lot.

Can I ask a few questions about your truth table and plan?

VOLUME UP
1 bridge series

2 bridge + middle series -- Do you mean to have the normal Bridge series humbucker and then the Middle in parallel (like the normal position 2 on a Squier HSS)? Or do you mean to have the Bridge pickup and the Middle pickup in series together, like one giant humbucker? That is a cool sound and Brian May uses it a lot. But it is much darker and heavier. Not quack at all.

3 b+m+n blended -- Do you mean to have B+M blended with N? Or do you mean B blended with M+N? Or, which would be very cool, B+N blended with M?
4 m+n blended
5 mid

VOLUME POT DOWN
1 bridge parallel
2 bridge + Middle parallel
3 B + M + N parallel -- So this is like position 3 above but simply with no blender?
4 Mid + neck parallel -- So this is like position 4 above but simply with no blender?
5 Mid

Regarding the 3-way switch, do you definitely need both North Single Coil and South Single Coil separately? I think they will sound very similar. If you only need one Single Coil, then you might be able to do the 3-way so it does: Bridge (series), Bridge (single coil), Bridge (parallel).

That would simplify the rest of the wiring since you might not need the push/pull. You could use it for something else like a phase switch or to change the tone control.



@angellahash, I think the trick would be to wire the superswitch 'backwards' and send the hot from each pickup to three of the poles. Then you can send them wherever you like in each position, e.g. to the volume, to the blender, to the moon... Then there is also a spare pole to do other things like putting one pick up into series or a coil split on the Bridge in some positions.

[Deleted]

I do think Circuit Diagrams will help you Follow a Path from Pickup to Jack!





I hope this Shows what a Blend Pot looks like, Tone Pot , Volume Pot and The Mono Jack Socket